The Dangers of Shojo

[Nekochii]

I found this interesting article that brings up a very important point about the way female characters are treated by their male counterparts in some shojo mangas.

http://www.sleepisfortheweak.org/art...jodangers.html

I have to say I agree with this article. I've seen many shojo mangas where male characters objectify, put down, and even go as far as forceing themselves on the female characters. What makes it even more bizzare is that a majority of the authers are female and their mangas are targeted towards a female audience. They often ramanticize behavior that would never be tolerated in real life. If Ryouki from Hot Gimmick were a real person, he'd be in jail!

[Aratos]

I don't see the problem, personally. it's fantasy. Not to mention
(a)There's been far worse in western fiction for centuries and
(b)Last time I checked, manga wasn't written with a western audience in mind. If cultural differences are a problem, don't license the stuff for ****s sake.

[SaiRong]

I think the article is well written and brings up a lot of good points. I know I stopped reading Hot Gimmick after the attempted gang rape scene, and one of the reasons I hate Absolute Boyfriend is because of passivity of the main character (not that she's sexually passive, but the fact that she never makes the plot happen but lets the plot happens to her. Any conflict or storyline is created by Night, Saoshi, the guy who sold her Night, or her two-faced best friend, never by Riiko herself. It boggles my mind that Yuu Watase can create a realistic, insecure character like Alice as well as someone as 2D as Riiko).

However, I don't think the writers give teenage girls enough credit in distinguishing reality from fiction. The characters Hot Gimmick are so unbelieveable and the situations so contrived that I can't see how anyone would connect it to the real world. It'd be like someone decrying Yu-Gi-Oh for teaching kids poor sportsmanship.

Though my favorite titles are ones that have strong female leads (Kare Kano, Red River, Alice19th), I don't think that every shoujo heroine should have to be a role model for young girls. It's up to the reader to discern fact from fiction and to recognise manga as an escape from reality and not the real thing.

[Libby]

On one hand, I do think most girls are able to distinguish reality from fiction.

But what about the girl whose reality is kinda similar to shoujo? I mean, there are tons of girls out there, especially in the more conservative areas, who get the impressions that it IS okay for a guy to bully his girlfriend around or that it's okay for a guys to have sex with a girl who says "no" because that's just what girls are supposed to say so they aren't thought of as sluts. And those aren't things I heard from manga -- that's stuff my friends in high school used to talk about. That attitude is a part of the culture here (rural West Virginia). I worry about my sister and her friends because these are things they not only hear from manga like Hot Gimmick, but are backed up by older classmate's attitudes towards sex and femininity. I talk with Sam about it, and she's all "I blame the patriachy" with me... but bleh, it's still kinda freaks me out.

And then there's the fact that so many girls who read these manga actually ROOT for the jerks. That's really what pisses me off. It's not the fault of the readers -- don't think I'm flaming you guys. But the mangaka deliberately try to make the jerks look more romantic and cool than the guys who would actually be GOOD BOYFRIENDS. And that I really can't stand.

I hope this thread becomes really really long, because this is such an important discussion and I'm surprised it hasn't come up more often. Excellent article, Nekochii! Thanks for posting the link!

[Kukiko]

That is an interesting article. I've seen it before since it was mentioned in The Comics Journal Issue on Shoujo in an article titled Monster of a Woman. The Dangers of Shoujo authors bring up some interesting points that you can't completely dismiss. But, still the types of themes they cite in shoujo aren't exactly special as they also note. I guess they just want to create a dialogue and better public awareness on the issue. I don't think its bad either to discuss what impact a form of media can potentially have on the impressionable. Although, I don't agree with most of the article and some of it seems confusing in itself to me.

Now I haven't read Hot Gimmick. I've only read a little of Sensual Phrase too (which is rated M anyway so what's the beef there?). I don't read a lot of the High School shoujo comics because I find most of them childish. Absolute Boyfriend, as someone mentioned, I don't like at all as well because of Riiko.

Still all the content that they are concerned about in the Tiers to me comes down as seriously truth & reality. In fact, the first two tiers in the spectrum I don't even understand the problem with, unless their saying it's a sort of easement into potentially more "dangerous" works.

Even the last tier "Let him do what he wants" is still very much based in the realism of how a girl can think. They even say (color mine for emphasis)

Dangerous shoujo themes are often presented in colorful and romantic packages with significant doses of realism, and when few people comment on how said themes should be treated as escapist fantasies as opposed to touching love stories, that's when we're afraid of readers subliminally idealizing abuse.

Maybe my opinion falls into the escapist fantasy argument, but I don't think so. I'm not sure what that all entails. If reading something fictional that still has very real life issues in it that are dealt with well, wouldn't it normally be a good thing? Sure there does seem to be the problem of the bad boy appeal and romanticizing relationships that ought not be. Those could most certainly be a problem and cause for concern. But what can a book or author who only reflects the uglier parts do exactly? If you change the reflection in a mirror, is it seriously going to change the real object on other the side?

[kyothekitty]

OH!come on that's quite it well i loved that anyway so that's no big deal or is it i find no problem with that

[jia_feong]

I didn't like Absolute Boyfriend either.

What's wrong with rooting for the jerk? it's like any other anime where the bad guy has fans. and i dont' think 100% of the girls who root for the jerk would actually imagine him as their "ideal" boyfriend.

I concur, girls CAN tell the difference between fantasy, and reality.

ALSO: the girls that are actually making the moves on jerks (ex: high school sluts) don't really watch anime. (or at least, I know none.)

I am very glad that Nekochii posted this thread. After reading through both the site posted and this thread, I have realized that I have been subconsciously accepting some of the "ideals" of shojo manga. After thinking over it a bit, I believe that it is still ok to read these types of manga as long as we stay aware and critical of what we are reading (which is something we should do no matter what we are reading). It seems to me, that these types of shojo manga become dangerous when you read them exclusively. Naturally, the way to protect yourself would be to read a vast variety of manga. By doing so, it would open up your mind to many different perceptions and ideas as well as allowing you to form some opinions of your own. Thanks once again for posting Nekochii and everyone else.

[Blueharlequin]

The article mentioned "Hot Gimmick." I have it, its not one of my favorites. I don't really like the dominating bf, or the sneaky childhood friend who are a few of the love interests. I actually want her to end up with the step brother, but thats not the way its going to go. He is actually the nicest one there. Maybe I keep reading it cause I hope Ryoki will reform and realize Hatsumi is the best thing that could happen to a jerk like him. Or maybe Hatsumi will develop a backbone and tell Ryoki where to stick it.
It also mentioned "Sensual Phrase." I read some of it but it just wasn't my thing. Even though it was sexy and steamy the characters just didn't do anything for me. It was so long ago that I don't remember much of the storyline. I have the anime somewhere as well and have't watched that either.
I like manga with empowered female heroines, stuff like "Red River," "Immortal Rain," and "From Far Away." I have a love/hate relationship with Yuu Watase's material. I can't stand Fushigi Yuugi and Absolute Boyfriend (please PTB let it be Soshi!) but I like Imadoki and Fushigi Yuugi Genbu Kaiden.

[kyothekitty]

Originally Posted by jia_feong

I didn't like Absolute Boyfriend either.

What's wrong with rooting for the jerk? it's like any other anime where the bad guy has fans. and i dont' think 100% of the girls who root for the jerk would actually imagine him as their "ideal" boyfriend.

I concur, girls CAN tell the difference between fantasy, and reality.

ALSO: the girls that are actually making the moves on jerks (ex: high school sluts) don't really watch anime. (or at least, I know none.)

WHAT!!!i love that how can u not love it 2