Has anyone ever read the Tale of Genji?

[ShadowSoul121]

The Tale of Genji by Lady Murasaki, It's a love story I think. I haven't read it but I want to. I want to read it in Japanese someday but i'm not good enough yet.

[kazuchiyo]

The Tale of Genji by Lady Murasaki, It's a love story I think. I haven't read it but I want to. I want to read it in Japanese someday but i'm not good enough yet.
Well, this may be good, or maybe unfortunate news, but most JAPANESE people can't read Genji Monogatari in Japanese. It's written in an extremely archaic style of Japanese that's LONG since died, way harder to read than say, Victorian English is to modern English speakers. You actually have to learn how to read this seperate from modern Japanese.
I've read some passages in my kobun class 3-4 years ago, and it was rather difficult.

That aside, I've also read it in English and honestly, while respecting it for being a significant piece of literature, don't find it particularly interesting or worth reading unless you are a scholar of Japanese literature. I found it actually very boring, but that's me.
I don't know that I'd call it a "love story," exactly. It's more of a piece about the life and times of Hikaru Genji, the "shining prince," and the loads of women he has affairs with throughout his lifetime. It's also just generally about how wonderful and perfect of a man he is in everyway, which I found awfully un-interesting.

There needs to be more love for that oft-overlooked Heian piece Heike Monogatari/Tale of Heike which I enjoy a LOT.

[Akemi]

Heh. Your post prompted a recollection. I remembered that there's a Live journal community dedicated to the reading of Genji.

http://community.livejournal.com/reading_genji/profile

I don't read it myself but the community seems pretty active.

[kazuchiyo]

Heh. Your post prompted a recollection. I remembered that there's a Live journal community dedicated to the reading of Genji.

http://community.livejournal.com/reading_genji/profile

I don't read it myself but the community seems pretty active.
I am friends with a friend of the person who started that, actually so I saw it happening a few months ago on f-lists, etc.
That actually has an ironic connection to TP but I won't get into it.

[Akemi]

I am friends with a friend of the person who started that, actually so I saw it happening a few months ago on f-lists, etc.
That actually has an ironic connection to TP but I won't get into it.

Well now, you've got every curious. ;)


But I believe there's also a manga that follow the tale of genji or it's own version anway. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/encyclopedia/manga.php?id=3891

[sailortitan]

My sensei says that The Pillow Book is a really good one, too. It's an autobiography. I think I might check it out sometime soon.

[Anjolina]

There is another manga that is based on The Tale of Genji and is called Gekka no Kimi. :)

[elisegrey]

I've got it on my shelf, accusing me with it's eyes/spine/whatever, sat there waiting for me to pick it up again, but- but I just can't do it. As much as it deserves respect for being effectively the original novel, that doesn't stop it from being boring as hell. Also, the translation I've got is a) American and b) dull. Perhaps when there's a slightly livelier version...?

...it's staring at me. D:

[kazuchiyo]

I've got it on my shelf, accusing me with it's eyes/spine/whatever, sat there waiting for me to pick it up again, but- but I just can't do it. As much as it deserves respect for being effectively the original novel, that doesn't stop it from being boring as hell. Also, the translation I've got is a) American and b) dull. Perhaps when there's a slightly livelier version...?

...it's staring at me. D:

Well, there is a "LIVELIER" version out from Dark Horse, I believe, which is Yoshitaka Amano's illustrated version that's only about 80 pg. long, and tells you the basically important parts of the story though art and short narration. I mean, it's nice to understand the overall idea of what went on but unless you're in literary scholarship little reason at all to go out of your way to read Genji.

[PeNCILz]

O.O The Japanese come up with all the good stuff!

[Gabycat]

Sorry, but the first novel ever written is the Mahabharata:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata

The hindu epic story is more than 9,000 verses long and it's been re-read over and over the centuries all over the world.

[QuikBunny]

I bought The Tale of Genji.. but yes I find it incredibly long winded and tend to put it down a good ten minutes after I pick it up every time ... I much prefer Shimaki Ako's version Gekka No Kimi LOL but that might just be because its slightly smutty and I like smut

[sailortitan]

Sorry, but the first novel ever written is the Mahabharata:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata

The hindu epic story is more than 9,000 verses long and it's been re-read over and over the centuries all over the world.

Sorry, but Mahabharata cannot properly be considered the first novel for two reasons:

1. It is a poem. Novels must be narrative prose.
2. It is written as a religious/historical work. Novels must be fiction.

Therefore, The Tale of Genji remains what is generally considered the first novel because unlike written works that predate or coincide it, it fills this requirement. If novels did not need to fill these requirements, other epic historical/mythological poems such as the Hebrew Bible, the Celtic Myth Cycles or Greek cycles such as the Illiad and Odyssey would qualify as well--all of these works predate Tale of Genji as well as the Mahabharata.

(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novel , although I pulled my knowledge of what consititues a novel more from my English major.)

[Gabycat]

I disagree with your posture Sailor Titan
The Odyssey is an Epic Novel, so it's the Ramayana, so it's the Popol Vuh.
Because of Homer, we also have a definite idea as to what conventional stylistic devices make up the hallmarks of an epic. When it comes to the novel, we are less sure of ourselves; therefore, this seminar will attempt to develop a definition of the epic novel, beginning with Homer’s Odyssey, and then working our way through some novels which have been called ‘epic’
http://hss.fullerton.edu/english/JGass/epic_novel.htm

The Bible is a compilation of shorts stories,not one only story.
The myths of the Celts, etc, aren't written in a way that you can follow from step A to Step Z- except perhapns the "Titanomaquia"

[ShadowSoul121]

unless I'm mistaken, The Odyssey isn't considered a novel but an epic poem at least that's what I've always been told.

[sailortitan]

I disagree with your posture Sailor Titan
The Odyssey is an Epic Novel, so it's the Ramayana, so it's the Popol Vuh.
Because of Homer, we also have a definite idea as to what conventional stylistic devices make up the hallmarks of an epic. When it comes to the novel, we are less sure of ourselves; therefore, this seminar will attempt to develop a definition of the epic novel, beginning with Homer’s Odyssey, and then working our way through some novels which have been called ‘epic’
http://hss.fullerton.edu/english/JGass/epic_novel.htm

The Bible is a compilation of shorts stories,not one only story.
The myths of the Celts, etc, aren't written in a way that you can follow from step A to Step Z- except perhapns the "Titanomaquia"

Now, I can't be entirely sure, but I get the feeling that what this professor is getting at by including the Odyssey is that the Odyssey, in being the original "epic", is the basis of later western epic novels. An epic novel is different from a just plain 'epic.' Whereas an epic poem is often based on fact or religion, an epic novel is a novel which is said to have qualities of an epic poem. For instance, Lord of the Rings is considered an epic novel because it is fictional, but like an epic poem, it encompasses world changing and mythological-style events.

So here I think the professor is refercing the quality of "epicness" inherited from The Odyssey, not really arguing that the Odyssey is a novel. You'll notice that all of the other books arguably fit the criteria, that they are fictional, and in most cases are prose (with a couple of exceptions.)

I could, of course, be wrong. But if you e-mailed this professor and said to him, "is not The Odyssey usually not considered a novel?" I doubt he would argue.

[kazuchiyo]

I'd like to agree to disagree on the definition of novel and shepherd this conversation back on topic, please?

[Gabycat]

I shall apologize Linlinchan, if this thread was about Tale of Genji and not about the oldest epic novel of mankind.

Now, according to a friend of mine making her major in Literature & Philosophy, she says its the Epic of Gilgamesh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epic_of_Gilgamesh

Not the Mahabharata.

[Jasper Cornelius]

Sigh...okay...this may be the first novel ever...but we can all agree that the very first written story was Gilgamesh. :confused:

[kazuchiyo]

I shall apologize Linlinchan, if this thread was about Tale of Genji and not about the oldest epic novel of mankind.


Now it is.

[ShadowSoul121]

eep....I didn't mean to cause controversy by saying The Tale of Genji was the first novel writen. Certainly other works predated it but it is credited as the first novel.
Outside the fact that I'm obsessed with Japan, I have to respect the fact that it was writen by a woman. It's a pretty big first I think.

I've heard the tale of genji can be quite dull but i want to know it at least. Plus, kabuki plays are often based off of it particularly in Noh Drama.

[ShadowSoul121]

I bought The Tale of Genji.. but yes I find it incredibly long winded and tend to put it down a good ten minutes after I pick it up every time ... I much prefer Shimaki Ako's version Gekka No Kimi LOL but that might just be because its slightly smutty and I like smut
hm...maybe i should check it out...

[ShadowSoul121]

Now it is.
gomen

[kazuchiyo]

gomen
No, it's OK! I just changed it because it's my feeling, from your posts, that you are interested in talking about *Tale of Genji* and not having an arguement about what the first novel was, so I changed it to that name to stop the fighting! ;)

[ShadowSoul121]

No, it's OK! I just changed it because it's my feeling, from your posts, that you are interested in talking about *Tale of Genji* and not having an arguement about what the first novel was, so I changed it to that name to stop the fighting! ;)
Thanks linlinchan ^_^

[gynocrat]

Sorry, but Genji is the first if you stick to the true definition of what a 'novel' is. I think the first 'modern' novel was Don Quiotix...I think 0_o.

What defines a true novel and seprates it from 'dramatic recounts' is that novelists in this sense write to entertain, not to educate or recount actual events.

You want to talk Genji...http://tanbi.livejournal.com/21572.html

[ShadowSoul121]

Sorry, but Genji is the first if you stick to the true definition of what a 'novel' is. I think the first 'modern' novel was Don Quiotix...I think 0_o.

What defines a true novel and seprates it from 'dramatic recounts' is that novelists in this sense write to entertain, not to educate or recount actual events.

You want to talk Genji...http://tanbi.livejournal.com/21572.html
talking genji was the point of this thread istead it's just been one large arguement about what the first novel was . Which desn't matter...*points to new title*

[gynocrat]

What I found funny about the article I linked what that it was called Genji, the original Gary-Stu. :)

[kazuchiyo]

What I found funny about the article I linked what that it was called Genji, the original Gary-Stu. :)
That is rather humorous and somewhat true. Then, Murasaki from the book is also often referred to as a Mary-Sue character for the author.

[YamPuff]

Hi! Yes I did! Yay! Now I can show off.

I read Royalle's version of Genji and only read the first half, since the second isn't about Genji. The poetry in it was awesome. It was dull, but also fun.

I was shocked by the characters. They're so life like and real. Its as if I could meet people like them in real life, or already have.