Mary Cheney's Pregnancy

[butterflychan2]

Major controversy brought by the pregnancy of Mary Cheney

ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=2705001&page=1)

[Aratos]

Well that's awkward.

And she's wrong. The ideal household requires a married couple who're of opposite genders. Mother acts as primary care-giver, father acts as companion and entertainer, playing withthe children etc. Any psychologist can tell you that.

[roxas87]

but who's the dad?

[ewlmonkey]

but who's the dad?

exactly, there has to be one.............

it is not possible for someone to have be pregnent without the opposite sex.

[butterflychan2]

I find that same-sex marriage is something that is SERIOUSLY a major debate topic, especially when it comes to adoption. While people would like to believe that just putting a child in a loving environment would help him/her grow up proper, he/she would need more than that. A child will be influenced by their surroundings, and just imagine what he/she will have to live through because of some thoughtlessness of his/her mothers. I think that it was horrible timing on Mary's part, and the lack of structure! Oh, the lack of structure! What if she has a son, who will he model after? Surely not the father because he was most likely a sperm donor.

Not to mention that the baby could possibly just be something to make a statement to the world (which would be horrid). I'm not entirely sure what to think of this situation here. :(

[ArriahNicolas]

Personally, as long as the child is happy, it shouldn't matter. My grandmother raised me, I'm quite normal(*no comment*) as one can be. What I really fear is the child when people discover s/he have two mommies. From the looks of this board, that will what seriously damage him/her

[Aratos]

Personally, as long as the child is happy, it shouldn't matter. My grandmother raised me, I'm quite normal(*no comment*) as one can be. What I really fear is the child when people discover s/he have two mommies. From the looks of this board, that will what seriously damage him/her

Well you're a bit of a fascist, aintcha?

What makes you sure sure, anyway? Being raised by a grandparent isn't the same as having two mothers you know.

[Iblis]

I've noticed that grandparents, when they raise a grandchild, are either extremely strict and over-the-top or extremely lax. They just don't do it like normal parents. D:

[Aratos]

That they are, that they are. And why shouldn't they be? Grandchildren are God's way of rewarding you for not killing your offspring.

[YamPuff]

That kid is gonna end up messed up...poor thing.

exactly, there has to be one.............

it is not possible for someone to have be pregnent without the opposite sex.
We don't need men. Just their sperm. ;)

[Elae]

How thoughtless of them, to want to love and raise a child! He'll be taunted and teased and shunned! We shouldn't let this happen.
Hell, on that note, what about making biracial marriage illegal again? God knows that they get made fun of enough! And white couples adopting a child from Africa? Absolutely thoughtless! Shouldn't be allowed, people will make fun of him! Women whose husbands die or leave should have their children taken away from them, because hell, the kid's gotta have a father! He won't be "normal" if he's not raised in an ideal family structure! He'll be a freak, just like all those kids from biracial families, or parents of different religions, or different social classes. If the dad's 65 & the mom's 20, they shouldn't be allowed to have kids either! Heck no!

Children go through a lot. They'll be okay. Gay couples have been raising children for decades, and I have yet to see any psychopaths going on rampage, with headlines shouting "son of two moms!!!!" The majority of children raised by same-sex couples still identify as straight- gay couples aren't doing this to brainwash the next generation into being gaygaygay. Mary Cheney & her partner want the right to raise a family... who are you to say no?

[Aratos]

Someone has a chip on their shoulder.

The point is that it _will_ cause problems with development. Hell, just look at the current generation of schoolchildren. A huge number of them're compeltely mucked up.

Besides, bi-racial marriages and the like are compeltely different to single paretns or same-sex couples. it's all about the PGC.

[Kyaa the Catlord]

Congrats to Mary. Hopefully she's got all the legal hurdles in line in case of death so her lover can inherit their baby. Personally, I don't think this is a big deal really. Definately not newsworthy that the nearly invisible adult daughter of the nearly invisible vice president is having a baby, despite the mad rush for press from the activist types. :)

And I'm pro-lesbian. I'm just anti-activist. :)

[YamPuff]

Personally, I don't think this is a big deal really. Definately not newsworthy that the nearly invisible adult daughter of the nearly invisible vice president is having a baby, despite the mad rush for press from the activist types. :)
Few things they put in the news is newsworthy these days anyway. :rolleyes:

[SweetNymph]

I lost faith in the media since Lance Bass coming out made front page news.

I see absolutely no problem with same-sex couples raising. Though I do think kids should have some active member of both sexes in their lives-- an aunt or uncle or close friend of the parents-- same as single-parents.

[Elae]

The point is that it _will_ cause problems with development. Hell, just look at the current generation of schoolchildren. A huge number of them're compeltely mucked up.

Children are always "mucked up," they've always had problems fitting in, and they always will.
What do you think causes the "problems in development", the fact that they're being raised by two people who love them who just happen to be the same gender, or the social stigma that's attached to them because of it?
I'd say the unwanted children, the accidents and the objects of regret are the ones we should be more concerned with, rather than the children who are so obviously wanted and planned for.

And oops, yes, it's personal. Go figure.

[Aratos]

Yeah, well, speaking as a psychologist i'm gonna have to disagree with you.

Speaking as a biologist, on the other hand, I'm not even gonna comment for risk of being accused of something.

[Nekochii]

The point is that it _will_ cause problems with development.
How is that? I can see how it would mess up a child if they were raised by parents of the opposite sex who then separated and one of the parents went off with someone of the same sex, but children who were raised by gay parents from birth wouldn't know any difference cause they'd have nothing to compare it to.

Besides, I remeber seeing a documentry on children who were raised by gay parents and they turned out perfectly normal. Actually they seemed a lot happier than most children who are raised by straight parents. o.0

[WhistleBlower]

I think that homosexual parents feel the extra pressure to be a little bit better, they feel that they cant mess up because then everybody will come crashing down on them screaming that they are horrible parents. I think that if people jsut let them be normal parents the children will be fairly normal.
I knew a boy who had two mothers and he was not a freak like some of you so bluntly put it. He was a normal teenager and proved to me that you dont need both to lead a normal life. Of course I dont knwo how he will end up when he is 20-30 but I think that he will be fine. What im trying to say here is that it depends on how good of a parent you are not your lifestyle.

[roxas87]

i think that the kid is going to be one hell of a happy person because he or she is going to be loved by both his or her moms.

[WhistleBlower]

True that

[Aratos]

*sigh*

I'll repeat msyelf from ebfore

Emotional growth is compeltely dependant ont he aprents. In an ideal family unit, the child will have a primary caregiver, the mother, who offers food, warmth and protection, and a second aprent, the father, who offers enteratinment and the like. And various otehr stuffs. it's quite copmplex. There can be crosssover, but there'll be one performing one role and one performing the other. Furthermore, as you may or may not be aware the male and female brains are wired differently, in such a way thta men cannot fully perform the role of primary caregiver, and in teh same way women cannot perform the role of whatever. Other parent. It's not in the blueprint. And indeed, studies show that children brought up in any family unit other than the aforementioned is ridculosuly more likely to suffer from mental health problems including inferiority/superiority complexes, paranoia, schizophrenia, depression, social retardation, you name it. There really is an ideal family unit, and the further you stray from that ideal the more damage you risk harming to the product.

Rememebr: children are still growing both physically and mentally, and anything that happens to them can have an effect, no matter how trivial it may seem.

[ArriahNicolas]

Well you're a bit of a fascist, aintcha?

What makes you sure sure, anyway? Being raised by a grandparent isn't the same as having two mothers you know.
Ah, my dear, I can't be fascit, I'm not Italian.

From the point most of you was making, I assume, that you need two parents for to raise a happy child.

As I said, as long as the child is happy, it shouldn't be much of a problem.

[Aratos]

[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][SIZE="1"][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Ah, my dear, I can't be fascit, I'm not Italian.


I'm sure general Franco and Hitler would be interested to hear that.

[roxas87]

what about the many moms that are single and have kids.

[Nekochii]

I think that homosexual parents feel the extra pressure to be a little bit better,
Of course they'll feel more pressure. If their child misbehaves, drinks, does drugs, has sex, fails in school, becomes, depressed, is angry, ect. it's because they have 'gay parents'. It doesn't matter that most kids with straight parents also go though the exact same stuff, it's always going to be because their parents are gay.

[Aratos]

what about the many moms that are single and have kids.

Y'want me to go see if I can dig up a few studies on that?

[ArriahNicolas]

I'm sure general Franco and Hitler would be interested to hear that.
Even though I have said once, in a perfect world, communism would be a perfect government, I prefer democracy. You see me excersizing the right at the moment. By what idea you say I'm a fascit? I'm just a very opinionated person. Besides, Hitler was a Nazi.

[roxas87]

Y'want me to go see if I can dig up a few studies on that?
can you try?

[YamPuff]

And indeed, studies show that children brought up in any family unit other than the aforementioned is ridculosuly more likely to suffer from mental health problems including inferiority/superiority complexes, paranoia, schizophrenia, depression, social retardation, you name it. There really is an ideal family unit, and the further you stray from that ideal the more damage you risk harming to the product.

Rememebr: children are still growing both physically and mentally, and anything that happens to them can have an effect, no matter how trivial it may seem.
I have living proof of that every year. My dad is with us only six months of year and its been that way since we moved to Cairo. Its different than how it used to be and its different when he's around to when he isn't, especially when it comes to my brothers. They act differently. And my mom is a stay at home. I can't even begin to imagine her working, how it would be.

Besides the fact that loving a kid does not assure his or her happiness or your ability and/or qualification as a parent.

[Aratos]

Hmm.

Ok then folks, I'v eofund a few investigations. And if you want, i can summarise the basics. However. And thus is a huge however, as far as I can tell all tehse studies have relied _entirely_ on volountary or conveniance sampling. In other words, the vast majority of participants will be of a certain personality type and so on, thus makign the entire argument very very limited and not representative o society as a whole. I say this before giving the results to avoid accusations of bias one way or the other. I also point out all these studies seem to be by the same psychologists, which also causes problems. But it's up to you. ANyone wants a sumamry, I'll post it. I jsut won't give any promises of acuracy.

[WhistleBlower]

Just do it. Better thier opinion then someone with no backround in these things.

[Aratos]

*shrug* If you say so.

Give me half an hour. I'm gonna boot up my word processor for this one.

[WhistleBlower]

lol sure

[Aratos]

Ok then, here's part I. It looks at studies performed on school-aged children in lesbaina dn single-mother households. To be honest I've not really found anything worth reporting on yet about single fathers or homosexual male couples. I'll keep looking though. I remind you again these studies are limited in that they were mostly performed in britain, that the participants were mainly of certain personality types and various otehr problems.

part II will look at the role of the care-giver in the family and so on and so forth. And hopefully I can find stuff that was unfortunately missing from part I. Should ahve that by tommorow evening at the latest.

Existing research on children with lesbian parents is limited by reliance on volunteer or convenience samples. Research on children in single-parent households suffers from much the same limitations.

Golombok et al in 1983 compared 37 school-age children from 27 lesbian households with 38 children from 27 single-parent heterosexual households. “The two groups did not differ in terms of their gender identity, sex role behaviour or sexual orientation. Also, they did not differ on most measures of emotions, behaviour and relationships--although there was some indication of more frequent psychiatric problems in the single-parent group. It was concluded that rearing in a lesbian household per se did not lead to atypical psychosexual development or constitute a psychiatric risk factor.”

Interestingly Javaid examined the attitudes of children from homes with homosexual and heterosexual mothers as regards to their attitudes towards marriage, procreation and homosexuality in1993. It was seen that mothers desired their children to marry and procreate rather than wishing “sexual deviance” upon them, with this view being stated more unambiguously towards boys. Children were seen to mirror these expectations, boys doing so more frequently than girls, and the majority of children expressed reservations at having a homosexual mother.

At this juncture, the compiler of this report would suggest that the above point is worth further examination, in particular as regards similar behaviour being shown by the children of so-called “hippies”, who rebelled against a culture that was self-destructive and damaging. It may be worth investigating whether this is some sort of in-built reaction to try and escape what is seen as being “unnatural” behaviour, and wether this is a purely natural reaction or one shaped by society. The compiler can find no record of such a study being performed.


In 2004 Golombok et al investigated the effects on children in households which were lacking a father. 25 lesbian-mother families and 38 families headed by heterosexual single-mothers were compared with 38 two-parent heterosexual families (at this point the compiler wishes to point out that such a comparison is inherently flawed: there are more heterosexual parents than lesbians), and the study showed that, strangely enough, in the latter camp children were seen to have a stronger attachment to their fathers, a fact backed up by other studies which suggest the presence of the father results in a stronger attachment than if the father is absent. Basic relation psychology. However, children in fatherless families were shown to see the mother as more available and dependable. While this may at first appear to be a good thing, it was also noticeable that mothers raising fatherless children were shown to have more and stronger disputes with their children than in the father-present families. Also boys were shown to often be more feminine, though not less masculine, in father-absent families. The conclusion made was that whilst he presence of a father will have a positive effect on a child, the lack of presence will not necessarily have a negative effect. This conclusion is of course up for debate, as seen from the aforementioned flaws in sampling.

In 1980 pagelow found that lesbian mothers will be more defensive of themselves and their children, possibly through a perceived victim complex, and thus be more independent. Whether this has an effect on child development is open to study, and the compiler has no wish to try and make suggestions at this time.

Downy et al announced in 1993 that the gender of the parent in a single-parent household has no effect on teh child’s growth, and that staying with a parent of ones own gender has no particular benefit. In other words, the argument that it’s best for children to go to the mother after a split has absolutely no psychological grounding. The compiler thinks it’s worth pointing that out, for the sake of completion.

According to Perrin, “A growing body of scientific literature demonstrates that children who grow up with 1 or 2 gay and/or lesbian parents fare as well in emotional, cognitive, social, and sexual functioning as do children whose parents are heterosexual. Children’s optimal development seems to be influenced more by the nature of the relationships and interactions within the family unit than by the particular structural form it takes.”. The compiler hastens to point out that this is one of the most brilliantly vague examples of newspeak he has ever seen, and it actually signifies nothing.

Conclusion.

Once again, I hasten to point out the severe limitations of these findings. They were all performed on children of school age at the oldest. They all required opportunity or volountary sampling. None of them came up with anything about later life. Throughout there was very much the suggestion that the relationship with the parent(s) will be affected in a household that does not have two heterosexual parents.

[YamPuff]

However, children in fatherless families were shown to see the mother as more available and dependable. While this may at first appear to be a good thing, it was also noticeable that mothers raising fatherless children were shown to have more and stronger disputes with their children than in the father-present families. Also boys were shown to often be more feminine, though not less masculine, in father-absent families. The conclusion made was that whilst he presence of a father will have a positive effect on a child, the lack of presence will not necessarily have a negative effect.
<.< That's true in my household anyhow...

[Aratos]

Well psychologists do have to get it right some of the time.

What you have to remember though, is that most folk taking part in these experiments, if they volounteered, are likely to be type A. Which also means they're more likely to suffer cardiac arrest. yay!

[LaughingInBlood]

^ I have to say, I've been raised by my father since I was three, and he then remarried when I was 14. I'm now 19, and must say that I'm exceptionally happy that I had him without any other female influence (until later on- but it really was too late to cause too much of a change in me), because I'm much more of a laid back person. I'm not tomboyish- I just don't care about outward appearances of others around me like most other girls do, amongst other more, erm....girl related traits. I don't get jealous, I don't care about clothes, I'm not overly picky when it comes to most things, and I think it all has to do with being raised by my father. If my mother had been around (she's got bipolardisorder and we don't talk to her anymore because she's a danger to society. XD ) and normal, I could have very well come out different than I am. I'm glad I'm not typically girly like the ditzs you see on mtv- I think I'd end it if I was. XD

Anyway, I guess my point is that parents are parents- no matter the gender- and can indeed have influences over their child's personality, but usually it's nothing too terribly bad. You just learn as you grow up what works best for you, and that's what I did. I don't think it's any different if the parents are homosexual or not. If they're adopting, I think it's perfectly wonderful that they've decided to open their hearts to a child who wouldn't otherwise have a home at all.

I don't know how much of that made sense, but I hope you get what I mean. ^^;

[Aratos]

you know, I don't think I've ever actually met a girl like those "ditzs on MTV". Hmm.

Incidently, did anyopne actually read the bit that mentioned that most children, particularly maongst boys, were actually uncomfortable about having queer parents?

[YamPuff]

I wouldn't be surprised at all.

I'm not one of those ditzy girls either...even though I'm the scary type that likes the color pink and dresses and sparkly things and phrases like 'mystical princess' and cute cuddly squishy toys. <.<

Honestly. Being girlish does not equal jealous and ditzy.

[Aratos]

Although it seems most of the girls I know are so compeltely clueless in the realm of IT that I can't have a proper conversation.

"I'll get it off bittorrent" "what's that?" "it's a filesharing programme" "a what?" "y'know, p2p. like kazaa and stuff" "I don't follow" "AAARGH!" etc etc/

[ewlmonkey]

That kid is gonna end up messed up...poor thing.

We don't need men. Just their sperm. ;)

but where do you get sperm if you don't have a men

[Aratos]

well according to the folk down in Edinburgh, cows.

[Nekochii]

I feel like renting Brokeback Mountain.

[Kaoru]

I feel like renting Brokeback Mountain.
I saw that movie recently. Very sad. I never cry for movies but this one just got to me.

Wait, what's this thread about...oh yea. Um...*has nothing to say on the subject*

[Kyaa the Catlord]

Brokeback Mountain features the girl from Princess Diaries topless.

Random? Yes.

[Gogatsu]

Brokeback Mountain features the girl from Princess Diaries topless.

Random? Yes.

really? :eek:

[YamPuff]

Brokeback Mountain features the girl from Princess Diaries topless.

Random? Yes.
*suddenly wants to watch it*
No particular reason. :p
but where do you get sperm if you don't have a men
Clones R Us.
duh.

[Gogatsu]

but where do you get sperm if you don't have a men

A bank...

[Aratos]

I go to banks for cash, personally.

[SweetNymph]

I really wasn't impressed with Brokeback Mountain. If not for the gay aspect, it'd just be about 2 guys cheating on their wives and being jerks to each other and everyone around them.

So, is there anything remotely related to the topic that hasn't been talked to death?

[Nekochii]

I'd really like to show my dad Brokeback Mountain. He gets very uncomfortable when it comes homosexuality. I can just imagine him covering his eyes and squirming in his chair like a five year old when a sex seen between the two men come up. That be too funny. :D

[Gogatsu]

I honestly don't think any man would get Mary Cheney pregnant or atleast voluntarily do it.

[Nekochii]

Are you implying that Mary Cheney is a rapist? o.0

[Aratos]

Probably is.

Incidently, anyone else notice the hidden meeaning int eh name of borkeback mnountain? Evidently it's a film about two brokes who are gay.

[YamPuff]

Are you implying that Mary Cheney is a rapist? o.0
Mayhaps. Why not?
I really wasn't impressed with Brokeback Mountain. If not for the gay aspect, it'd just be about 2 guys cheating on their wives and being jerks to each other and everyone around them.
Makes me think of this quote:
Fox News columnist Priest Jonathan Morris has referred to the movie as "propaganda" that "glorifies homosexuality."
That's why the movie never interested me much. Everyone was so concerned with the homosexuality and the 'oh, wow' that they were blinded to the actual story itself. Same thing with all the rave reviews for Steady Beat. Its like, take away the gay sister and what do you have left?

[Gogatsu]

Are you implying that Mary Cheney is a rapist? o.0

I don't think any man could actually keep it up with her standing over top of him and putting a brown bag over her head won''t cut it.:eek:

[YamPuff]

Incidently, anyone else notice the hidden meeaning int eh name of borkeback mnountain? Evidently it's a film about two brokes who are gay.
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i232/YamPuff/pointandlaugh.gif

[Aratos]

*badum-pish*

[Nekochii]

Fox News columnist Priest Jonathan Morris has referred to the movie as "propaganda" that "glorifies homosexuality."
How does the movie glorify homosexuality? Sure in the beginning it may have been fun to live a secret double life, but in the end Jack is murdered, and Ennis doesn't only lose his boy toy, but also his wife and kids. If anything it makes you want to avoid being gay, I mean no one want's to end up being alone and depressed in a trailer.

[Aratos]

Becasue it's saying "oh, look how victimised we are!".

[Gogatsu]

I don't think gay people really have it that bad compared to person of color.

[Aratos]

That's a matter of opinion. Besides, in both cases it's mainly a case of a victim mentality: people from certain groups will take greater offense and blow things out of proportion at something that would be pretty minor for others.

[SweetNymph]

That's why the movie never interested me much. Everyone was so concerned with the homosexuality and the 'oh, wow' that they were blinded to the actual story itself. Same thing with all the rave reviews for Steady Beat. Its like, take away the gay sister and what do you have left?

I don't think the movie glorified homosexuality. Rather the plot couldn't hold itself together without that aspect.

The beginning was really good, up to the part where whoever it was was crying and beating on the wall, but things just went downhill from there.

Shoot, they were even cheating on each other! By the middle of the movie, I didn't like either of them.

[LaughingInBlood]

you know, I don't think I've ever actually met a girl like those "ditzs on MTV". Hmm.

This is probably a little late- the pages really flew on this thread- but I have. They're called Sorority sisters, and sadly my campus is infested with them. ;P

[Nekochii]

I don't think the movie glorified homosexuality. Rather the plot couldn't hold itself together without that aspect.

The beginning was really good, up to the part where whoever it was was crying and beating on the wall, but things just went downhill from there.

Shoot, they were even cheating on each other! By the middle of the movie, I didn't like either of them.
In other words, they're man-whores.

[Gogatsu]

Its not very appealing for a man to be a whore. I mean in movies it is.... but to have an actual guy friend that whores around is worse then having a promiscuous female friend.

[Aratos]

Its not very appealing for a man to be a whore. I mean in movies it is.... but to have an actual guy friend that whores around is worse then having a promiscuous female friend.

They call folk like that studs around here.

Y'ask me it's all the same. Immoral fools who'll probably wind up mad and riddled with disease.

[Gogatsu]

and eventually die from one of them.

[Aratos]

Yes. yes disease does tend to do that.

[Gogatsu]

Anywho, I think Mary Cheney's baby is Mark Foley's.

[nikitia]

okay i could care less whose pregnat

wait edit that idiots should not be allowed to procreate Ex. Britney & K-fed, Jessica simpson, the other simpson sister, tom crusie, and so on

we need to thin out the herd here alittle

[Kyaa the Catlord]

Anywho, I think Mary Cheney's baby is Mark Foley's.

Does that make Mary Cheney into a young boy?

SCANDAL! I feel dirty!

In other news, have they figured out how to fertilize an egg outside of the womb by adding in girl genes from another woman yet? Then Mary and whatever her name is could really be having a baby.

Now mpreg is a while off still.

[Nekochii]

Anywho, I think Mary Cheney's baby is Mark Foley's.
So Cheny must have had sex with the guy, which doesn't really make her a lesbian (unless she had infertile fertilisation).