The MiddleEast

[preciousstarnhsnt]

After 9/11 many people have discriminated against middle eastern people. Many people have also been on the Bush subject, whatever views they have. I was just wondering about everyone elses opinon. But Please Don't Arguee!!!!!

[AnimeDudde]

The only thing Im concerned about is Gas Prices as I will be able to drive next year :( other than that, I dont know much about the Iraq war or the Israel and Lebanon conflict.

[KaYoKitten]

(Before I get to spouting my nonsense, I'd just like to point out that I love the people of the Middle East. One of my best friends is from Israel.)

The entire fiasco concerns me. The actions taken against Iraq knocked a brilliant, but conceited and ill-meaning dictator off his throne, sure. But most of Iraq is now in turmoil because of the loss of leadership and government as a whole. Now, the U.S. is trying to force OUR way of government onto a people who have fallen under the rule of a vicious dictator for decades.

It just ain't gonna work like that. As much as some people hate to admit it, Iraq is made up of more than a single group of people, most of whom are intolerant of each other and are as much at war with the U.S. troops as they are with themselves. Hate to say it, but I woulda rathered somebody kill Saddam while he was walking down the street than deal with this right here.

And btw, AniD, the gas prices are mainly because of the issues domestically, not foreignly. Most of our gas is produced closer to home than most people think.

I'm more worried about domestic issues being completely ignored and neglected because someone wanted to go drop a few bombs on Iraq. Because supposedly, THEY had bombs. Yeeeeeah...I believe that one. *sarcasm* I dunno...hmm...what about the drop in college funding, both for the schools themselves AND individual grants and loans? Since I'm going to art school (very expensive, mind), more than half of each semester will have to come from UNsubsidized federal loans OR private loans.

For those not in the know: Subsidized federal loans are the ones the government pays interest on while you're in school. Unsubsidized, you either pay the interest while you're in school, or let it accrue (work up) and pay it off after.

Not only that--we've recently had a cut in the funding for schools, for unemployment, and for homeless shelters. The reason these people need unemployment and shelters is because they're unable to get college funding and go to school to get a better job. (Or they just made a mistake and can't go back. =P ZOMG, a crime!) All because we're gung-ho for a war that didn't need to be started in the first place.

[Aratos]

I'm more worried about Hezbollah and the fact that the media seem to want to appease a man who says he's going to rein down the vengence of Islam on Israel, followed by the rest of the world (yes, he did say that.) Back in the 30's, Hitler went attacking folk, the media and public demanded appeasement and look what happened. A ceasefire may seem a good idea, but the fact of the matter is it won't work. Sure there are unfortunate deaths, but that's an unfortunate fact and not something that can easily be sorted.

I do, however, take offence at the US landing bombs at Prestwick.

[Jigsaw_San]

I think everyone should get along

[Aratos]

Yeah, everyone _should_ get along. problem si that life isn't so simple.

[yDiZv]

This is how the world is, I don't blame anyone. War is routine in every 10 or 20 years. Yet its funny how Islamic extermist say america and israel are stealing there land and killing there people when in africa the islamic terrorist are trying to transform the weak black populated state of somalia into a Islamic state and killing all there woman and childern. We try to force are way of life on them ? heheh, no one is really different here. Like in there koran implies, Do things there way or die by the sword.

I hate to say this but I don't like middle east people, there easily blinded to do things
that result in death. I support the U.S in iraq and afgan, imagin if we fail
these people will return to the dark ages once again, life of beheading eachother a world where there childern only know how to pull a trigger in there lives. They'll destroy eachother oneday. Like sunni's kurds and shite's. even though there all arab brothers they all detest eachother.
Well I said to many negative things forgive me if I was a bit to rash.

All I can say is, its only going to get worst from here on

[KaYoKitten]

(Eek, I'm too opinionated on this! X__X) It isn't fair, in particular to people like my friends who are being DRAFTED into the military over there when they don't want to. Kinda funny how the same thing happened here in the States when people were needed for the Vietnam and Korean wars. And funny enough how everybody was gung ho for both those wars until after it started....hmm...go back in time a few thousand years...

When the colonies were breaking off from Britain?

When Rome was conquering Europe?

War is a steady beat, and it's been going on forever and ever. It's been going on since the caveman days when one caveman nicked the other caveman's cave and food. If something means something to a person, they're gonna fight for it tooth, nail, and cannon. Think about it from their point of view for a second: To the Israelis, that land is theirs and is sacredly given to them by their religion.

Of course they're going to fight. It's the exact same reason why I fight with my brother over whether manga is worthwhile and keep him from burning it. It's mine, and I have a passion for it. Of course I'm going to fight for it.

And think about Iraq for just a minute: There are HOW many groups of people there who ALL believe different (in their eye) things? They were basically thrown together under Sadam's rule and whoever came before him. It's the same reason that much of Europe was broken up into smaller and smaller countries post-World War II. Czechoslovakia is on-again, off-again two separate countries because they are two very, very different groups of people.

And thing is, they don't WANT to get along. And they certainly don't want to get a brand-new government on top of it. Just think for a minute: Suddenly, you're being asked to choose a representative after decades (centuries? My history's rusty!) of being led by a dictator. Suddenly, you're being asked to work with someone who goes against every viable thought of a "fellow human being" you've ever had.

Hmm. Sounds a lot like the U.S. when we were just colonies, come to think. o.0 But the difference is, we were basically, MOSTLY Christian folk who had a very, very basic set of morals and a pattern that could be put to use. That pattern being, of course, the Magna Carta and such from Britain (or was that United Kingdom by then? I forget). We had a general idea of how we wanted to run things.

The Iraqis...don't. It is, and has been for several decades, chaos. And no one can agree on anything. So you see...I'm not really surprised that they're fighting us so much. ^^; We're the "scapegoats" for whatever rotten government stuff Saddam caused that suddenly erupted with the removal of the one thing that was actually holding that place together. Ironically enough, it was also the thing that was destroying them: Saddam. o.0

[Kaoru]

It isn't fair, in particular to people like my friends who are being DRAFTED into the military over there when they don't want to.
Huh? The US hasn't used the draft sense 1973. Unless your talking about some weirdo Iraqi friends you have online, who are being drafted into the Iraqi security forces, I wouldn't know about that. But if someone told you they were being drafted into the US military, they must of been lying to you.

[YamPuff]

Don't be too sure.

[yDiZv]

well you say that our rules are christian based morals for the iraqi goverment and for Iraqi people, well if that was true then we'd would of been long gone a very long time ago, then you can call us "Crusaders" like Osam bin ladin likes to state. but the current new iraqi goverments constitution states that there country is first and for most to the people an Islamic nation, kurds being the national lauguage etc, there goverment is still
Islamic fundemental, only thing different is that they get to choose there leaders.
The before rulers of Iraq where good and bad, like royal family placed there by the U.K back in the 40's-50, but that Ba'h party removed them, after wards the communist party was suppose to takeover but they where also killed, one of the few members of the Ba'h part was a young saddam hussien and took his chance and became a permenate ruler for Iraq. I don't care for the iraqi people they protested this month against us, that'd made me upset because our soldiers spilled blood to give them the freedom to protest, if it was still saddam then everyone would of been on the ground dead. But as long as the mission gets done then they can protest all they want, I hope Hezballah gets taken down a peg too.
Once again, sorry if I was out of line.

[Kaoru]

Don't be too sure.
Unless there's some big detail she left out. Because no offense UK, but a statement like "in particular to people like my friends who are being DRAFTED into the military over there when they don't want to" kinda leaves some stuff open. The only reason that kinda bothered me is because I hate general statements like that that try to sway the readers opinion. It's kinda like, if I may use an example from my life, it'd be like me saying something like "I don't like the Marines, my brother was killed as one", that kinda makes you think that being a Marine will get you killed, were as the big detail I left out was "but it was on base and by a drunk driver". If that would of been in the original statement it would of been different.
I hope there is a detail like that that UK didn't mention, because she seems smarter then to fall for someone telling her they were drafted. Maybe this friend lives out the country? Because I don't know about any status of the draft in other countries, but I do know that the US stopped using the draft in 1973, so anybody who tells you they go drafted into the US army is a lier, unless something changed between when we studied the Vietnam war in school (that''s when I learned this) back in june and now.

As you can tell I'm not 100% sure on what I'm saying. Of course you can never be.

[Aratos]

There's drafting, and then there's drafting... Or press-ganging anyway.

[YamPuff]

There's drafting, and then there's drafting... Or press-ganging anyway.
That's what I was trying to say...
I don't care for the iraqi people they protested this month against us, that'd made me upset because our soldiers spilled blood to give them the freedom to protest, if it was still saddam then everyone would of been on the ground dead. But as long as the mission gets done then they can protest all they want, I hope Hezballah gets taken down a peg too.
Once again, sorry if I was out of line.
I don't remember them begging for help.

[Aratos]

A lot of them seem happy to have it, though.

[Kaoru]

There's drafting, and then there's drafting... Or press-ganging anyway.
Huh? Please explain.

[Aratos]

Well, what you do is, you go to the pub, find a likely candidate, and get him drunk, then you bash him over the head, roll him aboard and set sail.

Well, that's how we used to do it. Now you just get them so pissed they sign up, thanks to laws etc. Can't jsut throw the kings shilling at folk as soon as htey walk through the door in thsi enlightened age.

[Kaoru]

Different views, different views. I'm talking about the US draft. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_draft)Assuming UK means a friend in real life, the friend couldn't of been drafted into the military. There may of been some kind of special circumstances were the person may of been forced into the military, but that doesn't mean he was drafted.

[Aratos]

Press Ganging's definately forcing. This "US Draft"'s just conscription, somethng we in the UK've never found acceptable when we weren't fighting the germans, so I'm definately talking in the same terms as you and Uk and that. I think.

[yDiZv]

That's what I was trying to say...

I don't remember them begging for help.
on the contrary, During the Gulf War when the U.S had to liberate Kuwait from Saddams forces, many Iraqi people thought we where there to liberate them also and topple Saddam. But we didn't. They yelled out America here's where free, but we didn't do nothing. Fathers gave there son's rifles to get ready to start shooting down saddams secret police and rescue there famlies, but guess what we didn't stay and they where quickly Iradicated out. In a way we abandon them, but where back and they don't want us, its because of there ideology that there minds are changed so easily to give up and return to there hell hole that was before, already the new ba'h party has been re-created by saddam hussiens ex- officials in Syria, if you sure sure they didn't ask to be saved then I'll be happy to let the new ba'h party take over iraq again and kill its own people for another 50 years again and put your people through another regime like the previous saddam. Its because of Syria and Iran, that iraq is the way it is rightnow. They send IDE's and forgien fighters to mess up the stablity of Iraq because they fear a new democratic nation revived by america will become to powerful and thearten there political system and the way the middle east is suppose to be. Irans islamic revolution is an example of a tyrant being toppled by the people only to have another one takes its place. Middle east is screwed up ... in a way it can't be fixed. The musilum people are traped in the dark ages like the times of england and france where its normal to hang a body out in public, that its the will of god to go into an Israeli's house and kill a mother and her baby with a rifle. Everything is in chaos over there, thats why the world is turning a blind to lebanon, because we don't want to help people who are blinded by an evil ideology thats still stuck with them for the past 1500 years.

I dunno now I'm upset, all this chaos in the world really makes you wonder whats to come. I'm not so sure about the future now. For them and us.

[YamPuff]

You have a messed-up view of Arab ideaology.

[Aratos]

More of an Americanised view if y'ask me.

[yDiZv]

Well have two planes fly into your buildings and see how you like it
Its nice to think to yourself that people are nice in this world but yet its not as gentle as you think.

[shadowmose]

Well have two planes fly into your buildings and see how you like it
Its nice to think to yourself that people are nice in this world but yet its not as gentle as you think.

What I think Yampuff and Aratos are trying to say is that world isn't black & white but shades of grey.( I know its a cliche :p ) That no one is clearly good or evil and that problems like these won't be easyly solved or the players won't be shoved into convenient roles. There won't be easy clear cut answers in this crisis.

[yDiZv]

What I think Yampuff and Aratos are trying to say is that world isn't black & white but shades of grey.( I know its a cliche :p ) That no one is clearly good or evil and that problems like these won't be easyly solved or the players won't be shoved into convenient roles. There won't be easy clear cut answers in this crisis. Yeah I understand, but all this middle east really differe's everyone here to one or the other side of a agurment, what brings us all here together, ahem and we can all agree on here. tis !

ANIME ! and Manga =d yep.

[Shamdu]

Huh? The US hasn't used the draft sense 1973. Unless your talking about some weirdo Iraqi friends you have online, who are being drafted into the Iraqi security forces, I wouldn't know about that. But if someone told you they were being drafted into the US military, they must of been lying to you.

Err, I think she was talking about me.

One weeeek... >___________<


Anyway, I've participated in this kinda threads in other forums and I'm pretty sick of it, so I'll pass this time. XP

[Kaoru]

Err, I think she was talking about me.
Oh. See? That's the big detail I was talking about. You're in Israel. Not that there's anything wrong with that. But now it makes more sense, like how she said: "in particular to people like my friends who are being DRAFTED into the military over there when they don't want to. Kinda funny how the same thing happened here in the States when....", suggesting the person was out of the country.

[RBTCS]

Well have two planes fly into your buildings and see how you like it
Its nice to think to yourself that people are nice in this world but yet its not as gentle as you think.

Watch your homes, churches, restaurants, schools, hospitals, and entire cities levelled to the ground by cluster bombs. Watch friends, family, loved ones executed in their homes by angry marines. Watch your fellow man be beaten, electrocuted, tortured, and humiliated. Watch foreign nations invade your home and force you to think differently. Watch your babies die from chemical-induced malformations at birth due to poisoned water and food. Watch your lover die from uranium radiation. Watch as thousands cower in community shelters only to have a napalm bomb come bursting through the roof to incinerate everyone alive. "See how you like it".

[yDiZv]

Watch your homes, churches, restaurants, schools, hospitals, and entire cities levelled to the ground by cluster bombs. Watch friends, family, loved ones executed in their homes by angry marines. Watch your fellow man be beaten, electrocuted, tortured, and humiliated. Watch foreign nations invade your home and force you to think differently. Watch your babies die from chemical-induced malformations at birth due to poisoned water and food. Watch your lover die from uranium radiation. Watch as thousands cower in community shelters only to have a napalm bomb come bursting through the roof to incinerate everyone alive. "See how you like it". Like i said before about how the world turns.
Its human nature, there's blood on your hands too. I never blamed anyone. Because thats life. and life is cruel because people can't get along, Life isn't always fair, for you or me. Just leave it as that because most of the stuff your spewing aren't even true, just brainwashed like Hezbollah's fighters, where its okay to murder Iraeli's because god says its okay, where its fine to start a fight with nation that has a right to exist because they bought there land fair and sqaure and there nieghbors detest them because in there koran there god had disputes with jew's, so they think its history repeating over again and yet there god isn't there so they have to take it into there own hands and pick up arms to erase them off the face of thee earth. Don't go on and picking fights with me, I have my reasons and its my right to remember 9/11 and my chioce to reconizge who's the one who caused it. and they admited it. So just be quiet, if I want to hear your rabbling I'd just turn on CNN.

[Aratos]

Just leave it as that because most of the stuff your spewing aren't even true, just brainwashed like Hezbollah's fighters, where its okay to murder Iraeli's because god says its okay, where its fine to start a fight with nation that has a right to exist because they bought there land fair and sqaure and there nieghbors detest them because in there koran there god had disputes with jew's,

where it's fine to give Israel lots of heavy bombs to drop on the Lebanese civilians just becasue Iran refuses to stop supplying bombs to be dropped on Israel. Where it's fine to treat all muslims as potential terrorists becasue an extremist Islamic terrorist group blew up a couple of buildings. Where it's fine to support an irish terrorist group until said Islamic group threatens your precious little free-from-danger country, at which point you start saying how wrong they are, becasue obviously all terrorism is a threat to your security, and thus global security. Where holding religeous beliefs of any kind automatically qualifies you as superstitious and potentially mentally ill. Where the rights of the individual are less important than the illusion of equality and fairness and peace.

[shadowmose]

where it's fine to give Israel lots of heavy bombs to drop on the Lebanese civilians just becasue Iran refuses to stop supplying bombs to be dropped on Israel. Where it's fine to treat all muslims as potential terrorists becasue an extremist Islamic terrorist group blew up a couple of buildings. Where it's fine to support an irish terrorist group until said Islamic group threatens your precious little free-from-danger country, at which point you start saying how wrong they are, becasue obviously all terrorism is a threat to your security, and thus global security. Where holding religeous beliefs of any kind automatically qualifies you as superstitious and potentially mentally ill. Where the rights of the individual are less important than the illusion of equality and fairness and peace.

It's fine because the Lebanese govt. and people aren't stopping Hezbollah from firing thier rockets into Isreal. Moderate Muslims are complaining about their treatment yet they continue to let the extremists rule in their countries. Is Isreal supposed to just take the daily attacks and do nothing? It's unforunate but Hezbollah has chosen to put their rocket sites in civilian areas. It's a no-win situation because you ethier let the rockets fly or counter-attack and maybe kill some civilians in the process.

[kakashi]

This war was going to happen sooner or later. I'm kinda glad that Israel is attacking Lebanon. The media makes it out to be that the casualties are mostly women and children over in Lebanon and that Israel is being cruel...or whatever negative crap that they have to say; the media is one-sided. There's always going to be the good and the bad of war. Israel even warned the Lebanese citizens to get to safety. Those people in Israel have been pushed around for so long...Also, we really do need to get our soldiers out of Iraq before a civil war breaks loose. The U.S. spends to much time trying to make amends in other countries than focusing on it's own problems.

I really don't like to talk about politics heheh...and I don't get my opinion out very well.

[RBTCS]

Like i said before about how the world turns.
Its human nature, there's blood on your hands too. I never blamed anyone. Because thats life. and life is cruel because people can't get along, Life isn't always fair, for you or me. Just leave it as that because most of the stuff your spewing aren't even true, just brainwashed like Hezbollah's fighters, where its okay to murder Iraeli's because god says its okay, where its fine to start a fight with nation that has a right to exist because they bought there land fair and sqaure and there nieghbors detest them because in there koran there god had disputes with jew's, so they think its history repeating over again and yet there god isn't there so they have to take it into there own hands and pick up arms to erase them off the face of thee earth. Don't go on and picking fights with me, I have my reasons and its my right to remember 9/11 and my chioce to reconizge who's the one who caused it. and they admited it. So just be quiet, if I want to hear your rabbling I'd just turn on CNN.


Human nature does not exist- it's something humans use to justify their wicked behavior. Life isn't fair, alright, I can accept that. The stuff I spew isn't true, is it? Would you prefer I back it up with videos, pictures, and documents? I'm not brainwashed. You, on the other hand, my dear...I'm not so sure about. The Israeli government and its soldiers murder children for being Palestinian. Israel is one the largest and most oppressive theocratic states in the world. It doesn't matter whether a government is Muslim, Jewish, or Christian. They are all capable of running horrific state-sanctioned murder. And they do. If you don't believe me, again, I can back it up, my dear. Of course you have your rights to remember 9/11. But it has nothing to do with Israel, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, or Iraq. Nothing. I would go so far as to say that Afghanistan had nothing to do it, either

ANY flea-ridden terrorist cell would be glad to say they did it, even if they didn't. So of course they "confessed". Do you understand how terrorist cells work? By claiming that they lashed out and bit the bully of the world in the ass, they win popularity to an otherwise fringe and unknown cause. It attracts ATTENTION to them, which is what they want. They want downtrodden people to know of their 'operations', because it wins them over more members. They also want to be attacked, because they know that innocent people will be killed. This allows them to manipulate the feelings of people and win even MORE people over to their side.

So, while they said they did it, most likely,...They didn't. They wanted credit for something so everyone would know their name. Did you even KNOW about Al Queda before 9/11? Probably not. Did you even know about Afghanistan? Probably not. By claiming they did it, they got the spotlight. Your attitude, "Shut up and go away" says alot.

[jia_feong]

Most of the Americans who knew about Al Queda before 9/11 were likely the ones that hated America.

"Shut up and go away" says alot.
Well...many terrorist groups hate Americans to the point of violence (others just dislike). But what did we do (I think most will say..)? The only thing I can think of right now is the Gulf War (which I barely know of because of American education....a differnt debate).

I guess I'll just say...if you look in the *cough* "Americanized" POV, we are the victims of 9/11.

To be honest, I agree with yDiZv 's "Shut up and go away". Though, a little different. maybe/ If you really hate America, don't destroy her--beat her. Create a far more powerful country. It may take centuries but it doesn't matter as long as it is for the people. (that's the kind of attitude i use against people I hate anyway..)

[Aratos]

Did you even KNOW about Al Queda before 9/11? Probably not. Did you even know about Afghanistan? Probably not. By claiming they did it, they got the spotlight. Your attitude, "Shut up and go away" says alot.


This film is dedicated to the brave and gallant people of Afghanistan

America was supporting Afghanistan for long enough before 9/11, remember?

Oh, and Al-Quaeda was known as welll, as was Bin Laden. Maybe the Ammericans who avoid world news didn't know, but I'd be surprise if they were unknown elsewhere.

[YamPuff]

If a guy had blond hair and was American....would they call him a terrorist I wonder.

[Aratos]

Probably not.

In other news: Al Quaeda terrorists just tried to smuggle nitro onto eight planes in drinks bottles to blow up over teh atlantic, and whilst hte majority of older British Muslims are good citizens, it seems 80% of young British muslims think the 7/7 bombers where in the right and Shariah law should be introduced in the UK. Think I'll emigrate by boat.

[shadowmose]

If a guy had blond hair and was American....would they call him a terrorist I wonder.

They have and his name was Timothy McVeigh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh). He executed a bomb attack on a federal building in Oklahoma City.

The Israeli government and its soldiers murder children for being Palestinian.

Palestinians kill people for being Jewish so I don't think they can claim the moral high ground.

But it has nothing to do with Israel, Hezbollah, Palestine, Iran, or Iraq. Nothing. I would go so far as to say that Afghanistan had nothing to do it, either.

Afghanistan at the time was under the Tailban rule who were giving safe passage to Al-Quaeda leaders,who planned the 9/11 attacks. Afghanistan is where Al-Quaeda was created when the US trained the mujahideen in order to use them against the Soviets when they invaded Afghanistan. The country that does have a lot to do with terrorism is Saudi Arabia. Saudi's help fund Al-Quaeda and Al-Quaeda first started hating America because we had airbases in Saudi Arabia. Al-Quadea viewed this as blasphemy and wants to overtake the House of Saud for this and among other things.

[yDiZv]

If a guy had blond hair and was American....would they call him a terrorist I wonder. Yes they will, if you lack american history and don't know about The Oklahoma City Bombing a terrorist attack caused by an american, also few of 12 americans have been charged in the past months not musilum decent for preparing for an terrorist attack, like I said, I blame there ideology they infect other people with to try to get what they want through savage violence. Or deep satisfaction.

Yet no one is ruled out to be terrorist suspect in america, its been said in our news over and over again, and it is true.

[Aratos]

Now why don't we stop being so one-sided and call tehm freedom fighters, or guerilla cells? It's so much more neutral and less personal, dontcha think?

[shadowmose]

Now why don't we stop being so one-sided and call tehm freedom fighters, or guerilla cells? It's so much more neutral and less personal, dontcha think?

However, making it less personal will make it easier to kill and maim people.

[jia_feong]

Now why don't we stop being so one-sided and call tehm freedom fighters, or guerilla cells? It's so much more neutral and less personal, dontcha think?

calling them freedom fighters is also one-sided; freedom fighters help some, and hurt others.

[preciousstarnhsnt]

I'm so sorry for not paying attention to my thread. I realize now I don't know much about anything. I can hardly belive what I'm hearing. This is so wrong. What has happened to everyone? Is this what becomes of people at a war? Just because, I'm proud to say I know people from all around the world, including middle east. No one should be torn down because of what their people did. We are all individuals, diferent people with different views, and all veiw weither you agree or not should be respected. Closed mindes are what bring into exsistence things like the KKK. Try to see yourself as the other person. I wrote a poem I think I'll post when I find it.

[RBTCS]

Well said, Precious, I couldn't agree more.

[YamPuff]

You people walked right into my hands...I was being sarcastic. :p

Freedom fighters....:D

I'm so sorry for not paying attention to my thread. I realize now I don't know much about anything. I can hardly belive what I'm hearing. This is so wrong. What has happened to everyone? Is this what becomes of people at a war? Just because, I'm proud to say I know people from all around the world, including middle east. No one should be torn down because of what their people did. We are all individuals, diferent people with different views, and all veiw weither you agree or not should be respected. Closed mindes are what bring into exsistence things like the KKK. Try to see yourself as the other person. I wrote a poem I think I'll post when I find it.
Well said...unfortunately it is in the nature of people to belive whatever the media dishes out. A few terrorists don't make up the entire race of the middle east, just as a few (or many) serial killers in America don't make up the whole country.

Not that it even makes any difference.

[Aratos]

And why would it make a difference? The media controls everyone. Which is why I don't watch TV.

[Charlox]

The news in the US is biased when it comes to issues like the middle east, especially Fox which is unbearable to watch. It's one sided which is why I try to get my news elsewhere like the internet. Trust me when I say this, most people wouldn't think the same of Israel if they saw someone carrying the upper torso of what used to be a living Lebanese child. Terrorism is a two-way street...

[Aratos]

Sorry, US news is biased towards Israel? The stuff in the Uk's baised towards Lebanon, and it's run by Murdoch, so...
wierd.

[Charlox]

Israel is the U.S.s attack dog in the middle east so I think our media won't talk bad about them. Hell I have yet to see any harsh criticism of Israel's policies in our media. Anyway Murdoch is a prick and everything he owns is biased especially Fox News and the NY Post. He's an opportunist and a Neo-con.

[Aratos]

Indeed.

And of course Murdoch's biased. He controls basically 90% of wester media, remember?

[preciousstarnhsnt]

Media.....blah. The media may controll some people but not everyone. If people realy cared about the issue they'd find out the whole story. Just because I see whoever in skimpy cloths doesen't mean I'm going to do the same thing. Unlike some prepps.... hee hee. But I'll give them their evil props, they do convince a lot of people.

[Aratos]

I believe it's impossible to ever know the whole story, personally. You need to be there to really get the unbiased truth, and even then it's missing something. Maybe if you're God you could do it, but otherwise...

[preciousstarnhsnt]

No one is God, no one is perfect. And I bet even the people there are just as confused.

[Aratos]

No one is God, no one is perfect. And I bet even the people there are just as confused.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Aratos/Memes/captainobvious.gif

[Charlox]

When your bombarded with information from TV, Radio, magazines, and the internet it's always up to the individual to make up their own mind about what makes sense. What worries me the most is this increasing sense of nationalism and and the belief that one's gov't can do no wrong. But what really surprises me is how ignorant people are getting and too many do follow stupid fads. For example I just don't get why Paris Hilton is everywhere in the media when she is just a spoiled rich slut.

[Kaoru]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Aratos/Memes/captainobvious.gif
haha that's great *steals pic*

[Aratos]

For example I just don't get why Paris Hilton is everywhere in the media when she is just a spoiled rich slut.


That's nothing new. It's called celebrity, and it's where people watch folk who're famous becasue we're told they're famous. In Paris Hiltons case, it's probably something to do with the crappy low-quality sex video that worked it's way onto the internet.

[shadowmose]

No one should be torn down because of what their people did.

This doesn't make any sense because there are consequences to the actions that the terrorists are doing. If they don't like them, then they have to accept responsibility and not allow terrorist actions happen in the first place. The silent majority has to speak up and not let the extremists rule their countries.This won't be easy but nothing of value ever is. Otherwise it looks like the majority is condoning the extremists actions.

[Charlox]

This doesn't make any sense because there are consequences to the actions that the terrorists are doing. If they don't like them, then they have to accept responsibility and not allow terrorist actions happen in the first place. The silent majority has to speak up and not let the extremists rule their countries.This won't be easy but nothing of value ever is. Otherwise it looks like the majority is condoning the extremists actions.
Sort of like how we let the extremists in our gov't decide for the majority of us. Much like we condone their extremist actions. If the silent majority spoke up and not let these extremist neo-cons kill and maim overseas for profits and interests, then we would most likely not have to deal with this. In my opinion neither side is right in their actions. Hezbollah for stupidly attacking and kidnapping israeli soldiers and Israel responding with extreme and brutal force killing more civilians than anything. This is definately not the way to gain international sympathy. Now the US is stuck in the middle of this not only because of the Iraqi and Afghan war but also because of its unwavering and one-sided support of Israel. The terrorists are on both sides of the matter because Israel is also using fear and force to justify its means.

[preciousstarnhsnt]

What I meant shadowmoses was just because someone is from the middle east they shouldn't be treated racistly or like a terrorist.

[Aratos]

WHat silent majority? You'd be amazed how many people are in favour of such things. Like 80% of British muslims under that age of 30. Now I'm not saying that's representative of Islam as a whole, but it _is_ a worrying figure.
In other news, I've stopped recieving death threats.

[Charlox]

That's what it seems like in the US. Protesting here has done absolutely but waste taxpayer money. A gov't for the people my ass. Unless your pumpin money into their campaigns your voiceless. I'm not saying that all senators and reps are like this considering that they haven't completely let the president have his way.

[preciousstarnhsnt]

In favor of what things Aratos? It sounded like you were kidding, but do the muslims there realy send death notes?

[Kaoru]

Protesting here has done absolutely [nothing] but waste taxpayer money.
How do you figure that?

[Aratos]

They sent me deathnotes. Aparently placing a danish flag and some pictures of muhammed on your website isn't acceptable. Understandable I suppose, really.

And in favour of bringing Britain under Shariah law and blowing up train stations.

[Suranime12345]

... For example I just don't get why Paris Hilton is everywhere in the media when she is just a spoiled rich slut.

I know this was a while ago, but if you'll excuse my tardiness...
It goes without saying that its a shame Paris Hilton gets so much attention. Yes, she's spoiled, and no, she isn't talented at all, but she's there for us to laugh at, not with. I believe that reality TV is doing a good job getting us to change the channel and watch something else...like the news.

That said, the news is far from perfect in more than one dimension. But if we are to stay together as a nation, there are "dimensions" that we must put up with in place of perfection; there must be a public religion, where coins state "in god we trust", regardless of the religions of those who chose to weild them.

Similarly, there must be a source of information that can be interpreted and re-displayed to us by a government-influenced or at least publically aware station...hence ABC, and hence Paris Hilton.

[Charlox]

Usually when the topic of today's media comes up I'm always reminded with Rage Against The Machine's "No Shelter". I'm not gonna go into detail about the song but it makes me think about the bombardment of useless information. It's all there to keep us in a dreamlike state. To protect us from the harsh realities of life. We live in an age of information warfare,

[Suranime12345]

One might even go as far as to say that the President plays on our fears, keeping that dreamlike state as potently saturated with stereotyping and nightmare-breeding newsbreaks as possible

[Aratos]

You're overthinking this, surely?

[Suranime12345]

It been going on since the Cold War.
Trust me, its summer, I'm not thinking at all
And don't call me Shirley.:D

[Aratos]

In light of having no idea of your real name, I'll call you whatever I want, Bob. And what makes you so sure? Maybe you're just listening to the propoganda.

[Suranime12345]

The government is winning if we even so much as recognize the propaganda, whether we disagree with it or not. Much like Satan, who "wins" by keeping people from noticing his existance...except of course its the other way around, but with equal magnitude. A very apt comparison, Bush and Satan:D

So I say "What propaganda, Shirley?"
**likewise, I think Ill call you whatever I want:p

[shadowmose]

This is definately not the way to gain international sympathy.

Unforturely, in today's world international sympathy isn't necessarily because China has none and is on pace in replacing the US as the lone superpower.

A gov't for the people my ass. Unless your pumpin money into their campaigns your voiceless.

People can have a voice if they actually got off their fat asses and vote. Why do you think Senators and Congressmen were scared in reforming Social Security? Because, old people have a lot of clout due to their voting numbers.

[Suranime12345]

Unforturely, in today's world international sympathy isn't necessarily because China has none and is on pace in replacing the US as the lone superpower.

China will take over the world
And the reason that we won't be able to stop them is oil:(
We are, as many have said, at the end of our regime, or at least our regime at the top of the world, just as the Dutch and the English before us, with steam and coal respectively

[shadowmose]

We are, as many have said, at the end of our regime, or at least our regime at the top of the world, just as the Dutch and the English before us, with steam and coal respectively

I think we won't be on top but being #2 or 3 isn't too shabby ethier. :p However, the high cost of oil will begin the incentives in finding another energy source. Whoever does or country will become very powerful economically which also could translate into military power. This has happend before in the past so it's not that hard for me to believe that won't happened again.

[Aratos]

Hey, we have all sorts of non-oil power around here and it doesn't do much good economically speaking. Mainly becasue idiots would rather have a nuclear power plant in their garden than a windmill, but still...

[renrenren]

i'm sorry but i hate people who support osama bin laden & that's all i have to say. :mad:

[Aratos]

And that has what to do with anything? Bin laden's the leader of Al-Quaeda, an extremist group of Islamic terrorists. Most of the folk in iraq/Palestine/etc are Islamic extremists who aren't affiliated with Bin laden.

[shadowmose]

And that has what to do with anything? Bin laden's the leader of Al-Quaeda, an extremist group of Islamic terrorists. Most of the folk in iraq/Palestine/etc are Islamic extremists who aren't affiliated with Bin laden.

This is true because civil war might errupt in Iraq due to the fighting of different Islamic sects, Sunni and Shitte.
Bin laden also wasn't an ally of Saddam because Saddam wanted to keep his government secular.

[YamPuff]

The government is winning if we even so much as recognize the propaganda, whether we disagree with it or not. Much like Satan, who "wins" by keeping people from noticing his existance...except of course its the other way around, but with equal magnitude. A very apt comparison, Bush and Satan:D

So I say "What propaganda, Shirley?"
**likewise, I think Ill call you whatever I want:p
Ahhh, I like you.

Fred.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[renrenren]

i'm not against the whole middle east but against the terrorists. they torture and kill people alive just because they hate. remrember how they chopped off a us soldier & korean translator's head while they were alive? i think those sick freaks are the lowest scums of the earth that needs to fall off the earth because their trashiness is not even something we can recycle. i remember how this 1 boy was saying he loves the backstreet boys but hates the americans & wish that we would all die & i thought wow well backstreet boys are americans ain't that a shame? what a dumb butt! anyway, i hate how the gas prices are going up too. the average amercians and below and small businesses are dying because of it. of course busy is who ignited the fire... :mad:

[Suranime12345]

it is really hard to read that font:confused:

I agree, but remember that the more angry they make us, the less we think about what really might be important. I think we should keep those images in the back of our heads while we strive to be a better nation. That way, we know that no matter how many twisted things they do, they will never win.

[preciousstarnhsnt]

Ha ha ha finaly got the copy of my poem from my friend.


Racism

To be close minded and shut them out,
To never look, hear or think them a second time,
To despise for what you have not tried to learn,
To never try to see through their eyes.

Is this realy the way you want to be?

What do you know about me?
Nothing, nothing,
but what you hear or see on TV.

If we all are infernal
why were we put on earth?

My skin is white.
My skin is dark.

I am a Muslim.
I am Jewish.
I am a Christian.
I am a Morman.
I am a Jhovah Witness.
I am a Native American.

I come from Mexico.
I come from Britain.
I come from China.
I come from the U.S.
I come from Australia.
I come from Brazil.
I come from Iraq.

Am I to be thrown away for who I am?

What if it were you?
Shunned, unfitted, ridiculed, by others?

If it were you
would you not do the same as we?

Why did we strive
for freedom, liberty, and equality,
then smother that hope in darkness for a selected few?

Each of us have a heart,
Each of us have feelings,
Each of us are the same,
Each of us are different.



I wrote this because one of my teachers in Jr. High was racist. I was going to tape it on his computer but he caught my friend coping it. I hope he felt bad!!!!!

[kairi990]

I feel sorry for Middle-Eastern people and the countries there (except for israel). The world treats them like trash.

[YamPuff]

I feel sorry for Middle-Eastern people and the countries there (except for israel). The world treats them like trash.
Its human nature to always have someone to treat like trash. Makes them feel big. Sure, we have running water and computers and we're 'open-minded' but nothing changes. Human beings have a habit of remainin exactly the same as they always have been.

[Aratos]

And what did Israel ever do to you? They have plenty of problems too, you know.

[YamPuff]

Oh yeah...I dodn't notice. "Except Israel".

[kairi990]

And what did Israel ever do to you? They have plenty of problems too, you know.


They deserve to have problems, Israel is problem starter. I don't know why the US, and other nations sympathize that country.

[Aratos]

Israel's a problem starter? Interesting...

So, fancy giving some evidence to back up your statement?

[kairi990]

Israel's a problem starter? Interesting...

So, fancy giving some evidence to back up your statement?

Turn on your television.

[Aratos]

In other words, you're brainwashed into believing everything the media tells you?

[YamPuff]

So...if there are some bad things in a country than it follows that the innocent suffering people deserve to have problems? I lke the way you think.

[kairi990]

In other words, you're brainwashed into believing everything the media tells you?

If that were true then, I would be supporting:
Gay Marriage
President Bush
The War in both Iraq and Afghanistan
Racial Profiling
Israel
The "war on terrorism"
And a whole bunch of other government propaganda

[YamPuff]

Now people will flame you because you don't support gay marriage.

[kairi990]

Now people will flame you because you don't support gay marriage.

Flamers are idiots, because what they don't realize is that Flaming will not change someone's opinion.

[Aratos]

<nitpick>The current US Government is technically anti-gay marriage</nitpick>

Anyway, your point is flawed. You said you believe what you saw on TV. Now, If I turn the TV on just now I see that Tony Blair has been forced out of office by his subordinates, Gordon brown is the leader of hi sopposition and Charles Clark has been insulting Brown becasue he's a Blairite. Funnily enough, apart from the clarke comment, I don't really have any proof as to what's going on there other than what the media tells me. Why would I believe them?

War on terror? If you don't support it, you support the terrorists. And yes, there are terrorists. They crashed planes into the world trade center and the pentagon, they blew up the london underground and a bunch of them were recently arrested in London who were planning on blowing up some planes. You can't deny that. Just think about that.

A word of advice: you're an idiot. You're stating things without knowing the facts behind them, and thus are brainwashed. Don't try making comments on things without doing proper research first, we just laugh at you otherwise.

[kairi990]

<nitpick>The current US Government is technically anti-gay marriage</nitpick>

Anyway, your point is flawed. You said you believe what you saw on TV. Now, If I turn the TV on just now I see that Tony Blair has been forced out of office by his subordinates, Gordon brown is the leader of hi sopposition and Charles Clark has been insulting Brown becasue he's a Blairite. Funnily enough, apart from the clarke comment, I don't really have any proof as to what's going on there other than what the media tells me. Why would I believe them?

War on terror? If you don't support it, you support the terrorists. And yes, there are terrorists. They crashed planes into the world trade center and the pentagon, they blew up the london underground and a bunch of them were recently arrested in London who were planning on blowing up some planes. You can't deny that. Just think about that.

A word of advice: you're an idiot. You're stating things without knowing the facts behind them, and thus are brainwashed. Don't try making comments on things without doing proper research first, we just laugh at you otherwise.

Show me where I said that.

Show me the terrorists. How do you know that those men arrested were responisible for any of the crimes that they suppossedly did!? Were you there to see it with your own eyes? No. So If you don't believe whatever the hell that is going on in England that you posted, why should you believe that the men arrested and accused are terrorists?

I'm lauging at you right now! You're just another product of government brainwashing! LOL!

I rather support the "terrorists" than support Bush, Blair or any other world leader.

[Aratos]

I repeat: idiot. Did y'know a lot of the 7/7 bombers were from Dewsbury in Yorkshire? They have two mosques there, very militant based ones that preach jihad. My family's from down there originally.

Did you know they sell Mein Kampf in arab countrys under the name jihadi? Well you do now?

How do I know there really are terrorists? BECASUE THE BLEW UP THE F*CKING LONDON UNDERGROUND AND CRASHED A COUPLE OF PLANES INTO THE GODDMANED WORLD TRADE CENTER. THAT'S HOW I KNOW THERE ARE FUGGING TERRORISTS! It's quite hard to miss a major event like that.

And who says I don't believe what's going on in Britain right now? I know that Tony Blair is being forced to stand down. I know Charles clarke spoke out against Brown. It's the supposed rivalry between Blair nad Brown that I've never seen evidence of I don't believe.

As for the folks being arrested, it's called trust. I trust the police.

Finally: never suggest I fall for propoganda. I watch maybe one or two hours of TV a week, becasue there are sitcoms on. I read multiple news sources to get a rough idea of any facts that appear to be the case, and use logic to get a rough diea of what I know. I go to great lengths ot stay out of the system. Don't rope me in with the ignorant masses, please.

[kairi990]

I repeat: idiot. Did y'know a lot of the 7/7 bombers were from Dewsbury in Yorkshire? They have two mosques there, very militant based ones that preach jihad. My family's from down there originally.

Did you know they sell Mein Kampf in arab countrys under the name jihadi? Well you do now?

How do I know there really are terrorists? BECASUE THE BLEW UP THE F*CKING LONDON UNDERGROUND AND CRASHED A COUPLE OF PLANES INTO THE GODDMANED WORLD TRADE CENTER. THAT'S HOW I KNOW THERE ARE FUGGING TERRORISTS! It's quite hard to miss a major event like that.

And who says I don't believe what's going on in Britain right now? I know that Tony Blair is being forced to stand down. I know Charles clarke spoke out against Brown. It's the supposed rivalry between Blair nad Brown that I've never seen evidence of I don't believe.

As for the folks being arrested, it's called trust. I trust the police.

Finally: never suggest I fall for propoganda. I watch maybe one or two hours of TV a week, becasue there are sitcoms on. I read multiple news sources to get a rough idea of any facts that appear to be the case, and use logic to get a rough diea of what I know. I go to great lengths ot stay out of the system. Don't rope me in with the ignorant masses, please.

There is no reason for you to type so big. It's a waste of space. There is also no reason for you to constantly call me an "idiot". Mature people can have an argument without resorting to the childish methods of name-calling. Grow up.

I don't live in England, and I could really care less what's going on there politically.

Big whoop! They sell Hitler's book under the name "Jihadi"! Sue them for plagiarism! :rolleyes:

When I said "show me the terrorists", I meant show me who they are. Not they don't exist.
Those men who flew the planes into the buildings, and the men who blew up the trains and what not, acted on their own. The government just decided label them as Al-Qaeda terrorist members, so that they can justify a "war on terrorism". If those smart-tarts want to fight "terrorism", they should start here in the US, and eliminate people like the Aryan Brotherhood, the KKK, etc.

[YamPuff]

War on terror? If you don't support it, you support the terrorists.
That's not true in any sense of the word. I support neither.

I don't see how 'Terror' is this thing that can be defeated. There are serial killers, murderes, rapists and all sorts of things going on in the US which is fighting people in another country. Blowing up the twin towers killed how many people and destroyed how much? How many people die yearly due to crime and whatever caused right at home? Terrorists are just more grand scale.
When I said "show me the terrorists", I meant show me who they are. Not they don't exist.
Those men who flew the planes into the buildings, and the men who blew up the trains and what not, acted on their own. The government just decided label them as Al-Qaeda terrorist members, so that they can justify a "war on terrorism". If those smart-tarts want to fight "terrorism", they should start here in the US, and eliminate people like the Aryan Brotherhood, the KKK, etc.
I will say Amen to that. That's exactly what i'vealways thought.

[Aratos]

Well technically by the war on terror we're referring specifically to the jihad started by Bin laden, and which is currently being enacted by islamic extremists.

And by "if you don't support one, you support the other", I meant thusly: by refusing to support the war on terror, and claiming it doesn't exist, what you're doing is basically allowing them to get away with it by not doing anything about it, hmm?

Al Queda were responsible for the 9/11 atatcks and the 7/7 bombings. There is proof of that.

Al Quaeda have training camps in which they organise suicide bombers to do more of that. fact.

The mosques in dewsbury have proven al quaeda links and a history of preaching jihad. fact.

A recent survery showed that about 86% of young british muslims think said terrorists are in the right. fact.

You can't make those facts just dissapear. The evidence exists. Personally, I kinda value my freedoms, and I'm not gonna let a bunch of religeous folk impose their laws on my country just becasue they believe it's the right thing to do. And don't try telling me they're not: the Islamic council of britain even said in a statement that they should aim to introduce shariah or whatever it's called via political means rather than violent. I see that as a threat, personally.

[kairi990]

Well technically by the war on terror we're referring specifically to the jihad started by Bin laden, and which is currently being enacted by islamic extremists.

And by "if you don't support one, you support the other", I meant thusly: by refusing to support the war on terror, and claiming it doesn't exist, what you're doing is basically allowing them to get away with it by not doing anything about it, hmm?

Al Queda were responsible for the 9/11 atatcks and the 7/7 bombings. There is proof of that.

Al Quaeda have training camps in which they organise suicide bombers to do more of that. fact.

The mosques in dewsbury have proven al quaeda links and a history of preaching jihad. fact.

A recent survery showed that about 86% of young british muslims think said terrorists are in the right. fact.

You can't make those facts just dissapear. The evidence exists. Personally, I kinda value my freedoms, and I'm not gonna let a bunch of religeous folk impose their laws on my country just becasue they believe it's the right thing to do. And don't try telling me they're not: the Islamic council of britain even said in a statement that they should aim to introduce shariah or whatever it's called via political means rather than violent. I see that as a threat, personally.

The search for Bin Laden = Bullshit. If they wanted him, they would have found him already.

Jihad is merely an add-on to the 5 pillars of the Islamic faith, which is often bent and twisted by the government to make it seem like it is some sort of evil. Jihad, preaches resistance against spritual and physical evils that may cause someone to sin, not war and killing. Those people who do evil acts (blowing stuff up, and killing people) in the name of Jihad, are not true Muslims, since violence and killing are a violation of the Islam faith.

It sounds like you are prejudiced against Muslims for the wrong reason. If the twin towers never fell, people wouldn't even know what Jihad, al-qaeda, etc is.
The US government has done a great job of spreading propaganda.

[Aratos]

Believe me, I've known about that stuff since before 9/11. I did a big paper on Islam for Standard Grade RS as a matter of fact, which involved reading the Quoran for research. And I have to say, that's the main reason i'm prejudiced, if that's hte right word. While I have nothing against muslims, I naturally have something against a religeon that sees me as a heretic and says I should be forced to denounce my religeon, proclaim that Islam is superior, and be treated as a slave. The death threats I recieved for supporting free speech didn't help much either.

And no, violence and killing are not a violation of the islamic faith. Violence is encouraged in times of war in "self-defense", self-defense being defined as oppression of Islam, which is indeed what these extremists believe we in the west are doing becasue we refuse to accept shariah law, which Islam beelieves to be the greater good of all nations. Uhu.

[Kaoru]

The search for Bin Laden = Bullshit. If they wanted him, they would have found him already.
You obliviously don't understand the situation.

[Aratos]

that's what I said.

[Kaoru]

that's what I said.
Really? Oh. haha then we agree :D

[kairi990]

Believe me, I've known about that stuff since before 9/11. I did a big paper on Islam for Standard Grade RS as a matter of fact, which involved reading the Quoran for research. And I have to say, that's the main reason i'm prejudiced, if that's hte right word. While I have nothing against muslims, I naturally have something against a religeon that sees me as a heretic and says I should be forced to denounce my religeon, proclaim that Islam is superior, and be treated as a slave. The death threats I recieved for supporting free speech didn't help much either.

And no, violence and killing are not a violation of the islamic faith. Violence is encouraged in times of war in "self-defense", self-defense being defined as oppression of Islam, which is indeed what these extremists believe we in the west are doing becasue we refuse to accept shariah law, which Islam beelieves to be the greater good of all nations. Uhu.

A true Muslim does not kill, therefore "extremists" are not true muslims. Just like the crusaders and missionaries aren't true christians. The Qur'an, just like the Bible can, and has been manipulated to justify acts of violence.

I have never been imposed upon by Muslims. Matter of fact, there muslim families live in my neighborhood, and we don't have problems with each other (Sadly, because of government propaganda, some people avoid them, so they mostly keep to themselves.). The nearest Mosque is about 3 towns over (within 20-30 minutes driving distance) , and I haven't heard any threats or complaints. So I think whats going on in wherever you are from is just a problem there ( possibly in other places I don't know of as well) and does not reflect the opinion of the majority of Muslims.

[Aratos]

Missionaries? Not true christians? As in those folk that go over to third-world countrys to spread the gospel and offer aid? Well I never did.

And how do you know the opinion of the majority of muslims exactly? Are you from an Islamic country? Have you ever watched bleedin' arab TV stations for that matter? Amazing propoganda they have there.

[kairi990]

Missionaries? Not true christians? As in those folk that go over to third-world countrys to spread the gospel and offer aid? Well I never did.

And how do you know the opinion of the majority of muslims exactly? Are you from an Islamic country? Have you ever watched bleedin' arab TV stations for that matter? Amazing propoganda they have there.

I was actually reffering to the crusaders of middle-age and age of discovery. In regard to the modern-day: Providing aid is one thing. Destroying someone else's culture and imposing your own is another.

Propaganda is everywhere. Sorry my word choice, made it seem as if I was reffering to all. I do read the Al-Jezeera online, but I do not watch arabic television.

You obliviously don't understand the situation.

If the guy can sit down and make freakin music videos, command a large group of millitants, get married to 200+ women, etc. why the hell can't they find him?
Either: They're not trying hard enough or the search is complete bullshit. And I believe the latter.

[Kaoru]

If the guy can sit down and make freakin music videos, command a large group of millitants, get married to 200+ women, etc. why the hell can't they find him?
Either: They're not trying hard enough or the search is complete bullshit. And I believe the latter.
Once again: you obliviously don't understand the situation.
The problem is the US can't invade every country in the middle east and Bin Laden can be hiding in any. That's our problem.

[Aratos]

Ever been to the afghanistan cave networks?

[kairi990]

^ No. Have you?

Once again: you obliviously don't understand the situation.
The problem is the US can't invade every country in the middle east and Bin Laden can be hiding in any. That's our problem.

So he's hiding in Iraq or Afghanistan?:rolleyes: That's why we're spending trillions of dollars for those wars?

It's obvious that the government is not looking for him. There just using his name as a tool to support their own intentions. Again: Search for Bin Laden = Bullshit.

[Aratos]

funny. You call us ignorant, yet your statements are based on a lack of geography knowledge?

[kairi990]

funny. You call us ignorant, yet your statements are based on a lack of geography knowledge?

LOL!
When did I say that?

[Aratos]

idiot is another word for ignoramous, you know.

[kairi990]

idiot is another word for ignoramous, you know.

What does that have to do with the middle-east?

[Kaoru]

So he's hiding in Iraq or Afghanistan?:rolleyes: That's why we're spending trillions of dollars for those wars?
Look at a map of the middle east. There's more there then just Iraq and Afghanistan.
From what I've heard he's in Pakistan. We can necessarily invade Pakistan , can we? So there's nothing we really can do. And we're in Iraq and Afghanistan for other reasons besides finding him.

[Aratos]

And we can't invade iran either for that matter. Middle East be huge.

[Ichigosmiles]

I think it's all just a bunch of BS:)

[kairi990]

]Look at a map of the middle east. There's more there then just Iraq and Afghanistan.[/B]
From what I've heard he's in Pakistan. We can necessarily invade Pakistan , can we? So there's nothing we really can do. And we're in Iraq and Afghanistan for other reasons besides finding him.

I think You and Aratos missed the little "Rolls Eyes" icon in my post. It was meant to express sarcasm. I know what the middle-east looks like. I'm not the average, uncultured american who can't even draw the shape of mexico.

And that's why I still believe that the search=bullshit.

[Aratos]

You know, if you'd actually back up your arguments rather than just hurling abuse at anyone who disagrees with you, we might take you seriosuly.

[kairi990]

You know, if you'd actually back up your arguments rather than just hurling abuse at anyone who disagrees with you, we might take you seriosuly.

All by Aratos:
funny. You call us ignorant, yet your statements are based on a lack of geography knowledge?
A word of advice: you're an idiot.
I repeat: idiot.

Pot trying to call the kettle Black?
Funny thing is, I don't even remember personally attacking you..

[Kaoru]

Well he does have a point...you are an idiot.

[Aratos]

And you _did_ personally attack me. You called me an idiot.

[kairi990]

And you _did_ personally attack me. You called me an idiot.

Show me the post.

[Aratos]

Ok, fine, my mistake, you didn't call me an idiot. You did, however, say you laugh at me for being brainwashed by "government propoganda", which really hurt.

[preciousstarnhsnt]

I read everything.

What Muslims are selling HITLER books in the name of jihad!! For what reason!!!! For those who don't know, jihad: the struggle within yourself to do whats good, to oppse opressors.

I study Islam,

Not slave Aratos.

I have to give this one to Aratos. The Quran states you can kill for war and fight back after being hitten (not war). In Islam taking a persons life for the wrong reason is like killing all of humanity. A true muslim does not do it lightly.

True, extrimists are NOT mijority!!! They are just popular to press, T.V. ect. I agree with Yampuff, Terrorists are just "grand scale" but on a different subject.

What is Mein Kampf, heretic?





I do not support Bush either.

[Ichigosmiles]

Have you guys heard of the Depleted Uranium???

[Cowboychamploo44]

Have you guys heard of the Depleted Uranium???
no....

[Ichigosmiles]

no....
hehe, did'nt think so. This is the kind of stuff they don't tell you.

[Kaoru]

I have.

[Ichigosmiles]

goodie;)

[Kaoru]

Yea, but what's it have to do with the middle east? :confused:

[Ichigosmiles]

Everything, butI thought you said you knew what it is?:confused:

[Kaoru]

Everything, butI thought you said you knew what it is?:confused:
I do. But are you talking about the current situation with Iran and it's developing of nuclear power? That'd make it make sense (were is my mind today?)
Because when you said that I thought of the cold war and all the depleted uranium deposits that resulted from the nuclear arms race, and I was like 'what's that got to do with the middle east?'.

[Ichigosmiles]

lol...okay..

[Aratos]

Depleted Uranium as in the stuff the US government gave to Iraq back when they were friendly with sadaam depleted uranium?

or are we talking about the stuff that gets sold off to the highest bidder?

[shadowmose]

Depleted Uranium as in the stuff the US government gave to Iraq back when they were friendly with sadaam depleted uranium?

or are we talking about the stuff that gets sold off to the highest bidder?

I think Ichigosmiles is taking about the depleted uranium that was used in tank shells in the first gulf war. This supposely is what caused Gulf war syndrome in US troops.

[Aratos]

Oh, that depleted uranium. Hey, it's better'n napalm, eh?

[renrenren]

i usually don't hate anyone unless i know them personally & they've done me wrong. however, i do hate hate groups whether they be the nazis or terrorists. all they ever wanna do is cause pain & suffering & kill people for no good reason. i think they're the lowest, not even degradable pieces of trash on earth! but the reason why the middle east is being so hated on these days could be because they in general, hate us as a whole for also, no good reason.

[Aratos]

Correction: a small minority of people in the middle east hate westerners for no good reason. A large number hate us because of the habbit the Americans have of invading them at the moment, and some actually like us. hmm.

[renrenren]

Correction: a small minority of people in the middle east hate westerners for no good reason. A large number hate us because of the habbit the Americans have of invading them at the moment, and some actually like us. hmm.

it IS true that it's a small # of the middle easterners aka terrorist hate us for no reason & another small # of the middle easterners hate us for invading them. but...

earlier, we invaded the middle east to take out the terrorists since they were causing their own people as well as the us & maybe eventually the rest of the world a big threat since the middle easterners weren't doing anything about it & we had the power to do so. or else it'd be like leaving the germans to deal with hitler by themselves.

now, with not much luck taking out the terrorists, BUSH & not the us as a whole, invaded the middle east for oil. since it's not the general public who had a part in this it's not plausible for the middle easterners to hate us for invading them therefore they must just "hate us for no reason".

however, i'm not saying that the us has THE right to invade their country no matter how high of a threat they were & if they were killing each other or doing whatever the hell they wanna do. but i'm also saying that we have A right to defend ourselves. so...

either they need to take care of their own problems & make sure they don't cause the rest of us a threat or stop complaining about our nature to defend ourselves. that's my 2 cents & i wasn't trying to argue. ^^

[Aratos]

now, with not much luck taking out the terrorists, BUSH & not the us as a whole, invaded the middle east for oil. since it's not the general public who had a part in this it's not plausible for the middle easterners to hate us for invading them therefore they must just "hate us for no

Bush didn't invade the middle east. A coalition of armed forces invaded Iraq. Spot the huge difference? the United Staes army is there, therefore the US is involved. The British army is there, therefore Britain is involved. The JSDF has a presence there, therefore Japan is involved. And so on and so forth.

[shadowmose]

In the latest reports, Saudi Arabia is planning to put a giant electric fence around their border next to Iraq. The Saudi royalty is worried about fighting spilling over into their kingdom.

[renrenren]

yeah well a LOT is going on & getting everyone hot & bothered. as long as things get resolved & there's no war... but then again they call this a war too...

[shadowmose]

Bush didn't invade the middle east. A coalition of armed forces invaded Iraq. Spot the huge difference? the United Staes army is there, therefore the US is involved. The British army is there, therefore Britain is involved. The JSDF has a presence there, therefore Japan is involved. And so on and so forth.

True, but the vast majority of the troops are American.

[Aratos]

Yes, but the point is that it's a coalition including America invading Iraq, not "bush invading the middle east on his own for oil"

[shadowmose]

Yes, but the point is that it's a coalition including America invading Iraq, not "bush invading the middle east on his own for oil"

However, their were plans to invade Iraq before 9/11. The only way the US got the coalition to go along was under the false pretext of WMDs.

[Aratos]

Yeah, yeah. I still stand by the decision to do so, considering Sadaam was such a tyrant. That dn there _was_ evidence there could be WMDs seeing as Britain did sell him the stuff for making them an' all...

[renrenren]

not saying bush alone went in for oil alone. also, not saying it was the wrong decision. like i said, i think it was the right thing to do. but i think bush might have more greed for oil than anything else. he hasn't solved anything. he captured sadaam. but bin laden was the main threat. sadaam was his escape from not being able to bring bin laden down. & sadaam's punishment is fruit loops? -_-;

[Aratos]

fruit loops? whut? He's, ah, on trial in Iraq and more than likely going to be executed last time I checked....

[shadowmose]

Yeah, yeah. I still stand by the decision to do so, considering Sadaam was such a tyrant.

It's good thing he's gone but containment was working as evidenced from the lack of WMDs. What exactly was Britain selling to Sadaam? I thought after the first Gulf war there was a trade embrago againgst Iraq on certain technology.

[Aratos]

We sold him the components for WMDs was what we sold him. The problem is that certain companies were ignoring the embargo becasue he bribed them, mainly with oil vouchers (thus breaking sanctions imposed on him). As a matter of fact, most of the French government was getting oil from him, thus their veto of the invasion. And George Galloway probably was, even if the US senate were too stupid to be able to deal with him.

[Kaoru]

As a matter of fact, most of the French government was getting oil from him, thus their veto of the invasion.
So that's why France was against it. Damn frogs.

[renrenren]

fruit loops? whut? He's, ah, on trial in Iraq and more than likely going to be executed last time I checked....

well NOW he is... but we still have to see what's to happen. anyway... who watched the videos of the beheading of an american soldier & the beheading of a korean translator (while they were alive!) i haven't, only heard of it & know people in real life who saw it. i wanna know when bin laden's gonna be captured!

[Kaoru]

i wanna know when bin laden's gonna be captured!
Dec. 17, 2007 at 2:23pm.
Na I dunno.
I'm guessing he'll die of old age before he's captured.

[Freakazoid]

I saw clips of those video's and it was very graphic. As for Bin Laden he's got
the whole area steaked out and i don't think he'll be caught for a while
unless he really screws up.

[kairi990]

sabri aleel...

[Aratos]

Seen the videos. Don't wanna talk about them.

[shadowmose]

sabri aleel...

What does this mean?

[Aratos]

It's a song by Sherine Abdul Wahhab, aparently.

[YamPuff]

Ew....Arabic written in English. *proceeds to show off*

صبري قليل للفنانه شيرين عبد الوهاب

:p Or... "I don't have much patience."

Mwahaha...had to do that.

[Aratos]

Some of us can't be bothered looking up the ascii for arabic characters...

[YamPuff]

Even if ya did, it's be obvious cause it wouldn't be written properly.

[kairi990]

Ew....Arabic written in English. *proceeds to show off*

صبري قليل للفنانه شيرين عبد الوهاب

:p Or... "I don't have much patience."

Mwahaha...had to do that.

Awesome. LOL!
BTW, how do you properly enter arabic? I have it installed on windows, but when I go to type out sentences, it comes out wrong...:confused:

[YamPuff]

It depends. On the family computer, which has Arabic capabilities, I simply press alt + tab to switch to Arabic and then use our keyboard, which has Arabic and English letters together. On my laptop, which doesn't have this feature, I usually translate the words in google and than fix the grammar and spelling mistakes that translation tools usually make.

[kairi990]

It depends. On the family computer, which has Arabic capabilities, I simply press alt + tab to switch to Arabic and then use our keyboard, which has Arabic and English letters together. On my laptop, which doesn't have this feature, I usually translate the words in google and than fix the grammar and spelling mistakes that translation tools usually make.

oo..
I might have to pick up one of those keyboards on eBay...

[Aratos]

Wait, if alt-tab is bound to changing languages, how d'ya switch between windows

[YamPuff]

There are two alts on a keyboard, right? Only one of em works on switching. And I don't know how my brother set it up in the first place, but that's how it works. I would imagine there are different ways to do it. We don't switch between windows using alt n tab anyway...we have mice for that.

[Aratos]

oh yeah. It's only left-alt that does switching.

And there are times when y'just can't use the mouse. Times when this toolbar isn't readily available. Like when you have games or other full-screen applications on.