What format do you draw your manga on?

[Pedes]

I'd like to know what format TP artists draw their manga on? And would you use different format if you could? (e.g. you don't want to buy big scanner, you can't draw on too small format etc.)

[Tentopet]

This has been said before, but I ink at 2x the size for the most part, by printing out various panels in light blue (without the panel lines), inking over them, scanning them, and reorganizing them on the page.

[beanclam]

I take the schizo format approach. Sometimes, I don't even draw actual pages. A few panels will be on random strips of bristol board that I scan in and I just assemble pages on Photoshop. Sometimes I tape them together. XD

... I think that just shows how unorganized I am in general.

[crispy]

I'm not a TP artist, but I draw everything at 1.5 x because I'm able to print out my pencils in blue on a normal printer on legal sized paper. It works for me.

[rivkah]

I pencil, ink, and tone all at-size. Though really, since I ink digitally and zoom in on my work, the paper would probably be about the size of my office. >_>; Even at 1200 dpi, I still zoom in close enough to see individual pixels for details. ^_^;

There are a bunch of pages in book 2 (and a few in book 1) where I actually zoomed in on books and flyers and notepads laying around messy rooms or half out of backpacks and wrote little messages on them. And if you look close enough, you can actually read them when it's printed out. It's like playing hide-and-seek. XD

[Tavisha]

My daily manga making tools:

paper: Deleter Comic Book Paper type-A (A4 size with ruler guidelines thingys) 135kg (weight) which is basically a standard cardstock thickness. Its a nice smooth surface for pencils & inking. The bonus is it fits perfectly onto our Epson CX4800 scan-bed/printer.

pencils: Eno soft blue pencil leads by Pilot to do my layouts in. I special order the leads from Japan at my local Kinokuniya in Los Angeles, CA. Because none of the other local art stores seem to carry them despite their excellent quality.

Pens: Pigma Micron by Sakura. Nib sizes typically range 005 ~ 08 (felt tip-waterproof)
And/or HI-Tec-C by Pilot Nib range 0.25 ~ .05 (metal tip/tech pen-only waterproof when completely dry) And/or Multiliner SP by Copic Nib range 0.03 ~1.0. (exchangable felt tips and ink cartridges waterproof)

Microns are my favorite for inking because of their soft felt nib you're able to control them according to your hand pressures and stroke which gives you the nice line variations. Also, because I'm a leftly I sometimes like to do a backhand sweep and their soft felt tip doesn't grate against the paper like some of the metal tipped pens seem to do whenever I do this. Also, I can't use traditional dip pens well as the angle in which I hold the pen, doesn't ever seem to allow an even flow to the nib. Someone told me it was because I was left handed~ BUT~ If someone out there is a lefty and can use the legendary G pen, please tell me HOW. XD The best I can use my G pen for is touching up mistakes or giving small highlights with the white ink~

For my computer touch ups, coloring & toning, I am right-handed and use a mouse connected to my eMac. ^____^*** I know wacom tabs are supposed to work, but they never seem to for me. For some reason I feel completely disconnected from my art whenever I've tried to use one. (Don't tell me its because I'm left-handed~please XD )
I say whatever works the best for you~ go for it ~!

[Tavisha]

There are a bunch of pages in book 2 (and a few in book 1) where I actually zoomed in on books and flyers and notepads laying around messy rooms or half out of backpacks and wrote little messages on them. And if you look close enough, you can actually read them when it's printed out. It's like playing hide-and-seek. XD

XD That ought to be fun to find~ What are they....little hate notes to your editor~? (I'm kidding, guys~!) :D

[rivkah]

XD That ought to be fun to find~ What are they....little hate notes to your editor~? (I'm kidding, guys~!) :D

LOL! More like love-hate notes! :P

Though really, they range anywhere from the ubiquitous elephant in the room:
http://www.rivkah.com/artwork/steadybeat2/wip/details001.jpg

To Rivkah's Book of Logic and Sense:
http://www.rivkah.com/artwork/steadybeat2/wip/details002.jpg

And of course! All your base belong to us! XD
http://www.rivkah.com/artwork/steadybeat2/wip/details003.jpg

I have WAY too much fun with backgrounds. >_>; What's funny is you can actually read them printed out on a laser printer (though certainly not on an inkjet). :P Yeay for zoom! \>o</

[Pedes]

My daily manga making tools:
Also, I can't use traditional dip pens well as the angle in which I hold the pen, doesn't ever seem to allow an even flow to the nib. Someone told me it was because I was left handed~ BUT~ If someone out there is a lefty and can use the legendary G pen, please tell me HOW. XD The best I can use my G pen for is touching up mistakes or giving small highlights with the white ink~

That doesn't have to be the case. At the beggining I had a problem like that (ink didn't wnat to flow) with nibs and I'm a right hander. It came out that I press too much on the nib. Since then I'm looking for hard nibs. Some of them don't want to cooperate th the beggining, but you can MAKE THEM *evillaugh*.
I'm as nib maniac, though I started considering using those marker-like ink-pens when I tried it once and went "OMFG< It's so easy to use!!!!!!!".

I pencil, ink, and tone all at-size. Though really, since I ink digitally and zoom in on my work, the paper would probably be about the size of my office. >_>; Even at 1200 dpi, I still zoom in close enough to see individual pixels for details. ^_^;

There are a bunch of pages in book 2 (and a few in book 1) where I actually zoomed in on books and flyers and notepads laying around messy rooms or half out of backpacks and wrote little messages on them. And if you look close enough, you can actually read them when it's printed out. It's like playing hide-and-seek. XD
Do you tome in Comicworks then?

Mwahaha, I love that kind of backgroung add-ons lol!
I'm not a TP artist, but I draw everything at 1.5 x because I'm able to print out my pencils in blue on a normal printer on legal sized paper. It works for me.
Well, I'm considering switchnig from 2X size to 1,5 size for the same/opposite reason - for scanning that is :)

To tentopet and beanclam - O.o Amazing! I mean I can't work without seing the page layout all the time. Last time I had to draw a panel separately because I spoiled the paper where it was supposed to be it was driving me nuts!

[crispy]

Oh wow, Tavisha... I always assumed you used nibs. Your ink-work looks as though you do.

I'm experimenting -- once again. I've used just about everything imaginable, aside from my fin-- well, never mind, I have used my fingers before. ( I stole the idea from Becky Cloonan. Well placed thumb prints can add pretty cool texture ).

Right now, it's a mix. I've been using brush and ink for about 8 months now. That's been pretty... interesting. It's very hard, but I'm hoping that eventually, I'll have some epiphany and I'll just magically become awesome.

Before then, I'd used technical pens, like microns or koh-i-noor pens, dip pens (which I'm going to have to try again. I don’t think I gave them a fair chance), PENCIL, brush-pens, digital inking... whatever I could find, really.


P.S. Rivkah -- I love your elephant AND your hidden notes. I came across a few of them in the first book. They made me laugh.

[Pedes]

Oh wow, Tavisha... I always assumed you used nibs. Your ink-work looks as though you do.

I'm experimenting -- once again. I've used just about everything imaginable, aside from my fin-- well, never mind, I have used my fingers before. ( I stole the idea from Becky Cloonan. Well placed thumb prints can add pretty cool texture ).

Right now, it's a mix. I've been using brush and ink for about 8 months now. That's been pretty... interesting. It's very hard, but I'm hoping that eventually, I'll have some epiphany and I'll just magically become awesome.

Before then, I'd used technical pens, like microns or koh-i-noor pens, dip pens (which I'm going to have to try again. I don’t think I gave them a fair chance), PENCIL, brush-pens, digital inking... whatever I could find, really.


P.S. Rivkah -- I love your elephant AND your hidden notes. I came across a few of them in the first book. They made me laugh.
GAH< WHY in ENglish you call EVERYTHING a PEN! *cries* "I ink with a pen" <<Veery informative ><
Dip pen and good nibs is something fantastic... Though soemtimes b***hy to use ><

[crispy]

GAH< WHY in ENglish you call EVERYTHING a PEN!

Cause... writing instruments that expell ink = pen.

What else is there to call them? Dip pens can be called nibs, I guess, and you can call technical pens microns, though, that's not really accurate for ALL of them.

[Pedes]

Cause... writing instruments that expell ink = pen.

What else is there to call them? Dip pens can be called nibs, I guess, and you can call technical pens microns, though, that's not really accurate for ALL of them.
You're right, but there's this confusion... What is technical pen>? Is it what is also called a rapidograph? *confused* What I called writing pen is probalbty fountain pen... And teh others... I never get all that right... >< (OK, you can't confuse dippping pen, but I've encountered a name quill-like pen for it... People don't really know how to name it :) )

[Tentopet]

To tentopet and beanclam - O.o Amazing! I mean I can't work without seing the page layout all the time. Last time I had to draw a panel separately because I spoiled the paper where it was supposed to be it was driving me nuts!


Nah, I do see the whole layout, when I sketch on the computer. And my pencils are super detailed. So it doesn't really interfere with that.

[beanclam]

Nah, I do see the whole layout, when I sketch on the computer. And my pencils are super detailed. So it doesn't really interfere with that.

... I rely on these messy thumbnails on folded sheets of 8 1/2 x 11 paper. BUt what ends up on my panels is usually different from the thumbnail sketch anyway. And when I've scanned all my panels in, sometimes I'll change my mind about the page layout and it'll be way off from the original sketch.

Like I said... schizo. But it all works out in the end. ^_^

[MazokuOni]

When you draw out your pages, do you print/draw out your own guidelines? Because, unless I calculated wrong (which is very plausible), TP's guidelines are a little different from what companies like Deleter put out. So I couldn't just buy a packet of paper with the guidelines already printed?

[Tavisha]

That doesn't have to be the case. At the beggining I had a problem like that (ink didn't wnat to flow) with nibs and I'm a right hander. It came out that I press too much on the nib. Since then I'm looking for hard nibs. Some of them don't want to cooperate th the beggining, but you can MAKE THEM *evillaugh*.
I'm as nib maniac, though I started considering using those marker-like ink-pens when I tried it once and went "OMFG< It's so easy to use!!!!!!!".


Oh, I know its all about the pressure control as well. I've tried, but the way I stroke the metal nib onto the paper and the way I hold my pens at an odd angle being a lefty, it doesn't allow the ink flow to give me a quick broad sweep that I need to make a straight line. I can use traditional nib pens for writing just fine, because its slower. But, if I slow down my stroke to make a straight sweeping arched line, etc. or try to do a backwards sweep with that same dip pen in drawing, it breaks my momentum which damages the line, you know?

Just wondering~ Am I the only left handed artist here? XD

[PeNCILz]

The left is a curse! (I say that cuz I am blind in the left eye... I hate cousins.)

Anyway I draw my own layouts. Well actually I draw one then ink it and set the paper over that and basically use it like a trace like guide...

[Zee Oddwyn]

Don't they make nibs for lefties? Or do they not work as well as traditional ones?
I'm a lefty too, so, I'm rather curious.

[Tavisha]

I'm experimenting -- once again. I've used just about everything imaginable, aside from my fin-- well, never mind, I have used my fingers before. ( I stole the idea from Becky Cloonan. Well placed thumb prints can add pretty cool texture ).

Cool~ I'm looking forward to Becky's book with TP ^_____^ Another American artist I wish they could get to do a manga would be Paul Pope (http://www.paulpope.com/comics/popecomics.html). His brush work is amazing~! For that raw inking style, its also fun to dip a twig into india ink and use that as a pen.

[QueenieChan]

I use plain Deleter A4 paper, just like Tavisha. And my pencils on them are ultra-messy too, mostly scribbles, and I just start inking on that straight away. That's why I don't do thumbnails like most people - my pencils are kinda like a cross between thumbnails and pencils.

For inking, I use the Delebter Nikko pen exclusively. This is real strange, because the nikko pen isn't very commonly used, as it produces a very thin line and can be quite difficult to control. I don't use the G-pen because it produces too thick a line on A4 paper, and I'll probably only use if it I were drawing on B4 paper. Which I never do, so I use the nikko pen with standard black ink and that's it.

Afterwards, rub out the lines and then scan and tone on the comp!

[Pedes]

Like I said... schizo. But it all works out in the end. ^_^
Everything that works is fine :D
Nah, I do see the whole layout, when I sketch on the computer. And my pencils are super detailed. So it doesn't really interfere with that.
And what program do you draw in?

h, I know its all about the pressure control as well. I've tried, but the way I stroke the metal nib onto the paper and the way I hold my pens at an odd angle being a lefty, it doesn't allow the ink flow to give me a quick broad sweep that I need to make a straight line. I can use traditional nib pens for writing just fine, because its slower. But, if I slow down my stroke to make a straight sweeping arched line, etc. or try to do a backwards sweep with that same dip pen in drawing, it breaks my momentum which damages the line, you know?
Hmm, but this is not only left-hander's problem, I had some nibs that did the same thing to me :( Evil nibs....

I use plain Deleter A4 paper, just like Tavisha. And my pencils on them are ultra-messy too, mostly scribbles, and I just start inking on that straight away. That's why I don't do thumbnails like most people - my pencils are kinda like a cross between thumbnails and pencils.
Heh, I also don't make thumbnails, I tired but it only cofuses me more, so I make them only if I'm really dobious about page layout :)

For inking, I use the Delebter Nikko pen exclusively. This is real strange, because the nikko pen isn't very commonly used, as it produces a very thin line and can be quite difficult to control. I don't use the G-pen because it produces too thick a line on A4 paper, and I'll probably only use if it I were drawing on B4 paper. Which I never do, so I use the nikko pen with standard black ink and that's it.
What kind of pen is Nikko pen?
Afterwards, rub out the lines and then scan and tone on the comp!
Standard question: in what program?

[Tavisha]

What kind of pen is Nikko pen?


Nikko is a popular brand of Japanese metal nib used for intricate lineworks. I think the nikko type Queenie is speaking of is the smaller round(maru) pen. Here's a list in English of the popular Japanese nibs (http://www.animegamersusa.com/istar.asp?a=3&dept=A&class=PN&subclass=NIB) . =D And this list shows others as well, like the Zebra brand nibs & turnip type nibs (http://www.arnoldwagner.com/dip_pens9.htm).

[Pedes]

Nikko is a popular brand of Japanese metal nib used for intricate lineworks. I think the nikko type Queenie is speaking of is the smaller round(maru) pen. Here's a list in English of the popular Japanese nibs (http://www.animegamersusa.com/istar.asp?a=3&dept=A&class=PN&subclass=NIB) . =D And this list shows others as well, like the Zebra brand nibs & turnip type nibs (http://www.arnoldwagner.com/dip_pens9.htm).
Oh, so those are dip pen nibs...
Heh, I don't even now what types I'm using, I just go to the shop and say "Ahow me your thinniest nibs" as most here are thicker... Anyway they have a different names here, because they make them in Europe (I think I have a German one and a Czech one and.. hell I know...) :)

Thank you for the information :)

[Tavisha]

I use plain Deleter A4 paper, just like Tavisha. And my pencils on them are ultra-messy too, mostly scribbles, and I just start inking on that straight away. That's why I don't do thumbnails like most people - my pencils are kinda like a cross between thumbnails and pencils.

XD I do pretty much the same too~ I can't work with seperate thumbnails or tight pencil sketches. Somehow I loose the same mood if I have to "redraw" in ink something I've already did a smaller pre sketch of or if I worked the sketch too detailed. I don't know why, but the emotion is somehow lost for me then. To give the right feelings and gestures to my characters I need to work out the details in the inking itsself. Also, I like a very loose and flowing feel to my characters. They are organic things and shouldn't appear mechanical or cookie cut. If I have to redraw something I already did, I find my characters looking stiffer and not as animated. So, I try to keep a steady stream of lucidity between me, my pen & paper and try not to overly think or overly plan. My characters work best for me when they're improvising. I leave very loose sketches out for flora like trees or flowers or parts of the castle that are more organic. For instance, if there's going to be roses, I'll indicate in my layout a few circles as placement holders that I'll ink straight into roses later on...My thoughts when inking a rose freehand is much like watching one of those time elapsed films capturing a flower bloom. The tight center is there and one by one each petal unfolds until there's a full rose. They are my favorite flower to draw.
@>--}------- ^_____^*** Didn't mean to go on babbling~!

For inking, I use the Delebter Nikko pen exclusively. This is real strange, because the nikko pen isn't very commonly used, as it produces a very thin line and can be quite difficult to control. I don't use the G-pen because it produces too thick a line on A4 paper, and I'll probably only use if it I were drawing on B4 paper. Which I never do, so I use the nikko pen with standard black ink and that's it.

Uru uru~ ..;T__T;...Raaaakeee~! I wish I could use them properly for my main inking...*sighs* I can only make them work in limited use, such as, for highlights in my watercolors for hair or something shiney, I'll use them with white ink. So long as I'm inking something in short strokes or little dots I'm ok. -___-d

[shady]

I use plain Deleter A4 paper, just like Tavisha. And my pencils on them are ultra-messy too, mostly scribbles, and I just start inking on that straight away. That's why I don't do thumbnails like most people - my pencils are kinda like a cross between thumbnails and pencils.

That's...really wonderful news to hear, because my pencils are so loose I consider them the same as my thumbnails too! I was always scared that I was leaving a step out when working on pages. ^__^;; I just like doing most of my work including revisional things when I'm inking.

Tavisha, I really really love the way you render roses- I just wanted to mention...I think it shows how much care you take with them and how much you like to draw them in your art because they're really wonderful!

[dannylee4]

Microns are my favorite for inking because of their soft felt nib you're able to control them according to your hand pressures and stroke which gives you the nice line variations. Also, because I'm a leftly I sometimes like to do a backhand sweep and their soft felt tip doesn't grate against the paper like some of the metal tipped pens seem to do whenever I do this. Also, I can't use traditional dip pens well as the angle in which I hold the pen, doesn't ever seem to allow an even flow to the nib. Someone told me it was because I was left handed~ BUT~ If someone out there is a lefty and can use the legendary G pen, please tell me HOW. XD The best I can use my G pen for is touching up mistakes or giving small highlights with the white ink~


I'm a fellow lefty too, and haven't found the g-pen hard to use at all. Basically everything was done by g-pen in my last RSoM entry. It definitely flows alot better than the maru pen. I used deleter 135k paper last time as well. All in all, it's a tough world for us lefties in a righty world. :)

[Tavisha]

Tavisha, I really really love the way you render roses- I just wanted to mention...I think it shows how much care you take with them and how much you like to draw them in your art because they're really wonderful!

Aww~ Thanks so much~! *^___^* I enjoyed reading your WirePop comic~!

I'm a fellow lefty too, and haven't found the g-pen hard to use at all. Basically everything was done by g-pen in my last RSoM entry. It definitely flows alot better than the maru pen. I used deleter 135k paper last time as well. All in all, it's a tough world for us lefties in a righty world. :)

XD Maybe its just me then~ ( I must hold the pen weird~!)

Also a Q for you & Queenie: What sort of black india ink do you use for the Deleter paper? The last time I tried my G pen with some Pelikan black india ink, there was a slight bleed on the paper (too watery) >___<***. I know Deleter makes a black ink, but I haven't bought it in a few years...so I forget its consistancy, but, I assume its specifically made to work well on the Deleter paper. Before I buy any though, I was just wondering what you guys used or if you reccomended any other brand.

[PeterAhlstrom]

When you draw out your pages, do you print/draw out your own guidelines? Because, unless I calculated wrong (which is very plausible), TP's guidelines are a little different from what companies like Deleter put out. So I couldn't just buy a packet of paper with the guidelines already printed?
To answer your question: It may be possible to use the preprinted guidelines but changing the top or bottom lines.

[EDIT: I just realized I completely and utterly screwed this up. I'll post the real recommended specs for B4 prelined paper later.]

[MazokuOni]

STUFF THAT IS WRONG! DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT! :)

Thank you so much for answering this question! I am trying to minimize the number of lines I have since I get messy with pencil, which is why I like prelined paper. I've heard of people just printing their own lines, but unfortunately my printer can't print at a size large enough.

[lazesummerstone]

I have WAY too much fun with backgrounds. >_>; What's funny is you can actually read them printed out on a laser printer (though certainly not on an inkjet). :P Yeay for zoom! \>o</
You are soooo funny! hahaha i guess there are a lot of backgrounds that might be so boring to draw over and over unless you can spice things up a little.

[lazesummerstone]

I totally agree with Tavasha's Paul pope comment! yeah and Beckys book is amazing! :D

But as for the paper size I use that common japanese manga paper by Copic (B4). And I've found that the full size out to the edges of the page make the paper basically 186.7% of the tokyopop standard size.
Here's where you can measure things to make it the same ratio as tokyopop sizes:

Bleed - 249 x 364 mm (this is the outer edge of the actual paper)
Trim - 237 x 353 mm
Safty zone - 202 x 329 mm

mm are easiest to measure on this type of paper since usually the measurements are already printed on it.
hope this can help someone :p

[Pedes]

Thank you so much for answering this question! I am trying to minimize the number of lines I have since I get messy with pencil, which is why I like prelined paper. I've heard of people just printing their own lines, but unfortunately my printer can't print at a size large enough.
Ladies and gentelman, what can fit into all scanners/printers?
A4
So here the calculations I made for myself. I MIGHT HAVE GOT SOMETHING WRONG, but I really checked it a dozen of times..
Paper size: 210x297 mm
Image proportionate to TP: 206mmx297mm (about 1,5xsize of TP. Yeah, now you know why I did this pool?)
Trim: adviced by a moderator:1/4" for 1:1 TP size, recalculated takes 9,525mm, but since it goes similarly for safety zone I cheated, so:
From lenght(297mm) the margins are: 10mm(trim) + 9 mm(safety line)(or the other way round, it just had to add up to 18-19)
From width (210mm) 12mm trim + 9mm safe zone. (you have to take more to trim here, because we have to do something with A4's excessive 4 milimeters).
This way you use A4 up to it's limits.

If there's a mistake TELL ME PLEASE!

[EDIT]: OK, looking at post below I don't undestand this, ignore sizes above ><

[PeterAhlstrom]

(Note: For the sake of simplicity, these sizes assume that on the final page you have 1/8" bleed on all 4 sides. This is NOT actually true once books are laid out. The center bleed in laid out books is 0"; only the top, bottom, and outside edges have 1/8" bleed, so this should be taken into account if you are making a spread-spanning image.)

TOKYOPOP Standard Size (Will fit on: A4, Letter (8.5" x 11"), Legal (8.5" x 14")):
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 4.25" x 6.9375"
Trim: 5" x 7.4375"
Bleed: 5.25" x 7.6875"
Scan in at: 100%, 1200 dpi

TOKYOPOP 1.5x Size (Will fit on: A4, Legal):
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 6.375" x 10.406"
Trim: 7.5 x 11.156"
Bleed: 7.875" x 11.531"
Scan in at: 66.666% (round up, not down, if your scanner can't handle so many decimals), 1200 dpi

TOKYOPOP 2x Size (Will fit on: A3, Tabloid (11" x 17")):
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 8.5" x 13.875"
Trim: 10" x 14.875"
Bleed: 10.5" x 15.375"
Scan in at: 50%, 1200 dpi

TOKYOPOP Recommended Size for Japanese B4 prelined manga paper:
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 186 mm x 305 mm
Trim: 220 mm x 327 mm
Bleed: 240 mm x 349 mm
Scan in at: 57.727% (round up, not down, if your scanner can't handle so many decimals), 1200 dpi

Notes for prelined B4 paper:
These are the prelined lines on a typical example of B4 manga paper:
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 180 mm x 270 mm
Trim: 220 mm x 310 mm
Bleed: 240 mm x 330 mm
Actual Paper Size: 257 mm x 364 mm
So you can see that for the TOKYOPOP-on-B4-paper size we are using the same horizontal trim and bleed for the sake of convenience. Note that our new VERTICAL Trim size is just a little smaller than the original prelined vertical Bleed size. If you set your bottom Trim line to be where the paper's original bottom Bleed line is, then your top Trim line should be set 3 mm below the original top Bleed line. You can draw in a new top Bleed line 7 mm above the original Bleed line and a new bottom Bleed line 10 mm below the original top Bleed line. (Though really, you only need 6 mm bleed on all sides to be proportionate to our final 1/8" bleed, but again we're saying 10 mm for the sake of simplicity.) As for Safety Zone lines, the left line should be 3 mm to the left of the original, the right should be 3 mm to the right of the original, the bottom line should be 19 mm below the original (i.e. 1 mm above the original bottom Trim line), and the top line should be 16 mm above the original (i.e. 4 mm below the original top Trim line).

Notes for A4 paper: I recommend just using the exact 1.5x spec as shown above. If you must convert to mm, draw your left and right Bleed lines 5 mm from the edges; your top and bottom Bleed lines 2 mm from the edges; your top, bottom, left, and right Trim lines 5 mm inside of the Bleed box; your Safety Zone top and bottom lines 9 mm inside of the Trim box; and your Safety Zone left and right lines 14 mm inside of the Trim box.

Those are the official, straightforward recommendations.

And now I present: Peter's unofficial, more complicated recommendations which may make your head spin, and if they confuse you, you should definitely not follow them...and if you mess up, it's not my fault. :)

But if you do use them, I think it will look more visually balanced in the final printed book...

Peter's Standard Size (Will fit on: A4, Letter, Legal):
Safety Zone: 4.375" x 6.9375"; the top, bottom, and outside margins are all 0.25"; the inside margin (center of a 2-page spread) is 0.375". This means that on a left-side page, the left margin is narrower than the right margin, and on a right-s-die page, the right margin is narrower than the left margin. This is to make up for the amount of the page that disappears into the gutter.)
Inner Box: 4.375" x 6.8125"; the top & outside margin are 0.25"; the bottom & inside margins are 0.375" (Notice that the Inner Box is different from the Safe Zone, in that the bottom margin is wider. This is where you should actually draw your panel lines, and the reason the bottom margin is wider is to make room for page numbers at the bottom.)
Trim: 5" x 7.4375"
Bleed: 5.125" x 7.6875" (Notice: ONLY bleed the top, bottom, and outside edge. Do not bleed the inside edge.)
Scan in at: 100%, 1200 dpi

Peter's 1.5x Size (Will fit on: A4, Legal):
Safety Zone: 6.5625" x 10.406"; top, bottom, and outside margins are 0.375"; inside margin is 0.5625"
Inner Box: 6.5625" x 10.219"; top and outside margins are 0.375"; bottom and inside margins are 0.5625"
Trim: 7.5 x 11.156"
Bleed: 7.6875" x 11.531" (No bleed on inside edge)
Scan in at: 66.666% (round up, not down, if your scanner can't handle so many decimals), 1200 dpi
Alternative scan method: Scan in at 100%, 800 dpi, and then in Photoshop go to Image Size, uncheck "Resample Image," and change the dpi to 1200. Make sure that the Pixels count at the top of the dialog box does NOT change when you do the dpi change. Hit OK; your image will now be the correct size and resolution. Note: This alternative method may or may not be a good idea. :) Do some tests and compare quality and speed.

Peter's 2x Size (Will fit on: A3, Tabloid):
Safety Zone: 8.75" x 13.875"; top, bottom, and outside margins are 0.5"; inside margin is 0.75"
Inner Box: 8.75" x 13.875"; top and outside margins are 0.5"; bottom and inside margins are 0.75"
Trim: 10" x 14.875"
Bleed: 10.25" x 15.375" (No bleed on inside edge)
Scan in at: 50%, 1200 dpi
Alternative scan method: Scan in at 100%, 600 dpi, and then in Photoshop go to Image Size, uncheck "Resample Image," and change the dpi to 1200. Make sure that the Pixels count at the top of the dialog box does NOT change when you do the dpi change. Hit OK; your image will now be the correct size and resolution. Note: This alternative method is a good idea especially if your scanner's optical resolution is only 600; it will scan much faster than at 1200, though the end pixel count will be the same. Go figure.

Peter's Recommended Size for Japanese B4 prelined manga paper:
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 186 mm x 305 mm (See notes below)
Trim: 220 mm x 327 mm (See notes below)
Bleed: 226 mm x 339 mm (Do not bleed inside edge; see notes below)
Scan in at: 57.727% (round up, not down, if your scanner can't handle so many decimals), 1200 dpi
Alternative scan method: Scan in at 100%, 692.727 dpi (round DOWN rather than up, if your scanner can't handle the decimals), then in Photoshop go to Image Size, uncheck "Resample Image," and change the dpi to 1200. Make sure that the Pixels count at the top of the dialog box does NOT change when you do the dpi change. Hit OK; your image will now be the correct size and resolution. Note: This may be a completely stupid idea. Test and compare quality and speed.

Notes for prelined B4 paper:
These are the prelined lines on a typical example of B4 manga paper:
Inner Box: 180 mm x 270 mm
Trim: 220 mm x 310 mm
Bleed: 240 mm x 330 mm
Actual Paper Size: 257 mm x 364 mm
So you can see that for the TOKYOPOP-on-B4-paper size we are using the same horizontal trim for the sake of convenience. Note that our new vertical Trim size is just a little smaller than the original prelined vertical Bleed size. If you set your bottom Trim line to be where the paper's original bottom Bleed line is, then your top Trim line should be set 3 mm below the original top Bleed line. Don't bother drawing new top and bottom Bleed lines; just make sure you draw enough art for 6 or more mm of bleed. As for Inner Box lines, the bottom line should be 13 mm below the original (i.e. 7 mm above the original bottom Trim line), the top Inner Box line should be 16 mm above the original (i.e. 4 mm below the original top Trim line), the outside edge Inner Box line should be 9 mm beyond the original (i.e. 11 mm within the outside Trim line), and the inside edge Inner Box line should be 3 mm beyond the original (i.e. 17 mm within the inside Trim line).

Notes for A4 paper: I recommend just using the exact 1.5x spec as shown above. If you must convert to mm, draw your outside Bleed line 5 mm from the outside edge; your top and bottom Bleed lines 2 mm from the edges; your top, bottom, and outside Trim lines 5 mm within the Bleed box; your inside Trim line 10 mm from the inside edge; your Safety Zone top and bottom lines 9 mm within the Trim box; your Safety Zone inside edge line 14 mm within the Trim box; and your Safety Zone outside edge line 9.5 mm within the Trim box.



Whew!

[dannylee4]

Aww~ Thanks so much~! *^___^* I enjoyed reading your WirePop comic~!



XD Maybe its just me then~ ( I must hold the pen weird~!)

Also a Q for you & Queenie: What sort of black india ink do you use for the Deleter paper? The last time I tried my G pen with some Pelikan black india ink, there was a slight bleed on the paper (too watery) >___<***. I know Deleter makes a black ink, but I haven't bought it in a few years...so I forget its consistancy, but, I assume its specifically made to work well on the Deleter paper. Before I buy any though, I was just wondering what you guys used or if you reccomended any other brand.

I use the Deleter 5 Black Ink. It comes off nice on my deleter B4 paper (I am going to start working on A4 size however, as drawing big takes more time :b) It's kind of funny, US and Japanese nibs and pens are kind of like PS2s, not very compatible with each other. :) The Deleter black ink leaks RIGHT OUT of my American nibs, much less make a line, and India Ink is a little thick for the Deleter nibs, though it works fine. I just prefer the Deleter brand because India ink doesn't like to wash off as easily when it comes time to clean the nibs. Been experimenting with the multiliners, but so far I still prefer nibs, although the nib pens are pretty cool too, though I get less line control with them.

[Pedes]

Notes for A4 paper: I recommend just using the exact 1.5x spec as shown above. If you must convert to mm, draw your left and right Bleed lines 5 mm from the edges; your top and bottom Bleed lines 2 mm from the edges; your top, bottom, left, and right Trim lines 5 mm inside of the Bleed box; your Safety Zone top and bottom lines 9 mm inside of the Trim box; and your Safety Zone left and right lines 14 mm inside of the Trim box.

I really need milimeters as I can't understand inches, have to convert (metrical system) ^^'

I have a question: what is safety area? Is it the area outside which the image can be hard to see in thick volume?

[PeterAhlstrom]

The safety area is everything but the edges of the page. All your text and important art that you want to make sure everyone sees should be inside that space. Anything outside that may get cut off or will be down in the gutter of the book where no one can see it. The safety area also doubles as the inner box, where your panel lines should be drawn if there is not bleed.

Our guidelines are for the final-size unsafe zones at top and bottom to be .25" (6.5 mm) and the sides to be .375" (10 mm). In practice you can get away with .125" (3 mm) for important art elements and sound effects, but text should stay more in the .25" (6.5 mm) range. I don't know why we list both sides as .375" (10 mm); I would only do .375" (10 mm) on the inside, not the outside, as you can see in my spoilerized specs. And margins where you're drawing panel lines should definitely not be less than .25" (6.5 mm) regularly, unless there are artistic reasons to break this every once in a while. I recommend bottom margins be .375" (10 mm) so that there's room for page numbers.

Please don't think that what the above paragraph says means that all pages have to have white margins around the edges with no art in them. That's not the case at all; you are free to use bleeds (art extending to the edge of the page and 1/8" (3 mm) beyond the edge of the page, but be aware that anything 1/8" (3 mm) from the edge of the page may get cut off.

[KaYoKitten]

I've been trying to figure out the safety zone, as well. Just for some clarity on my part: If you draw a panel line directly on the safety guideline, there will be a space around it, correct? And the "trim" lines, if you draw a border that extends off the page, you're good as long as you draw it past the trim. I think I got that.

I think it's also helpful to mention that human eyes tend to place less "weight" at the bottom of an image. Meaning, balloons, panels, artwork, etc. should be sliiiightly thicker at the bottom than at the top. I learned this in a basic psychology course, of all places. ^^;

[morganluthi]

I draw my pencils at 1.5x and then scan 'em in. I resize the images to the exact size and then ink and tone. I don't always get it exactly right, but I think it ends up looking a little more fluid that way.

It's funny that Rivkah would bring up hiding messages by zooming waaaaaaaay in on her pages because I have a few of those in my book as well. Nothing anyone would need a secret decoder ring for, but fun none the less.

[tomselleck69]

I totally agree with Tavasha's Paul pope comment! yeah and Beckys book is amazing! :D
unless someone already pointed this out, paul pope DID do manga.... kinda. he worked for kodansha for five years, although only a few pages of his work were ever published.

semantics i guess, but perhaps someday they will be released. also MY GOD BECKY ROCKS MY SOCKS.

and for relevance to the thread, i use 11x14 bristol vellum, but have been considering going smaller to fit my scanner better.

[Tavisha]

unless someone already pointed this out, paul pope DID do manga.... kinda. he worked for kodansha for five years, although only a few pages of his work were ever published.

"A hit for Kodansha would be something that would sell 500,000 per tankobon."-Paul Pope (http://www.pulp-mag.com/archives/5.08/interview_pope_01.shtml) <~ A great interview where Pope tells of his experience and techniques working with the big K in Japan. I'd love to see a full tankouban of his own~ XD My favorite domestic series created by him is THB.

What makes Paul's technique so amazing is that he often uses brushes and ink all freehand~(with barely or no penciled layouts) 0____0

[tomselleck69]

"They lived, ate, and breathed manga, and subsequently they were all alcoholics."


oh man he mentions mishima [swoooon.] what a great interview. he is a crazy, inhuman machine, who averages like 50+ pages a month, and his ambition to make 'world comics' is so admirable. paul pope is my hero.

[Pedes]

"A hit for Kodansha would be something that would sell 500,000 per tankobon."-Paul Pope (http://www.pulp-mag.com/archives/5.08/interview_pope_01.shtml) <~ A great interview where Pope tells of his experience and techniques working with the big K in Japan. I'd love to see a full tankouban of his own~ XD My favorite domestic series created by him is THB.

What makes Paul's technique so amazing is that he often uses brushes and ink all freehand~(with barely or no penciled layouts) 0____0
A great interview.Thank you for the link :)

[Elae]

TOKYOPOP Standard Size (Will fit on: A4, Letter (8.5" x 11"), Legal (8.5" x 14")):
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 4.25" x 6.9375"
Trim: 5" x 7.4375"
Bleed: 5.25" x 7.6875"
Scan in at: 100%, 1200 dpi

TOKYOPOP 1.5x Size (Will fit on: A4, Legal):
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 6.375" x 10.406"
Trim: 7.5 x 11.156"
Bleed: 7.875" x 11.531"
Scan in at: 66.666% (round up, not down, if your scanner can't handle so many decimals), 1200 dpi

TOKYOPOP 2x Size (Will fit on: A3, Tabloid (11" x 17")):
Safety Zone/Inner Box: 8.5" x 13.875"
Trim: 10" x 14.875"
Bleed: 10.5" x 15.375"
Scan in at: 50%, 1200 dpi


Sorry to revive this thread, but I'm a bit confused- the specs you listed above are different from those listed in the RSOM mechanical guidelines pdf. The width of the safety zone is listed smaller here than there.
Basically, you say that for standard size, the safety zone is 4.25", while it lists 4.5". 1.5x size, you list 6.375", it says 6.75". 2x size, it says 9", you say 8.5".
Which should I be going by? A fourth of an inch is a pretty big difference.

On the same note- was this (http://messageboard.tokyopop.com/forums/showthread.php?p=61275#post61275) ever looked into? (the incorrect "actual size" template).

Sorry for bringing it back up, I'd just like to figure this out so I'll be able to work on my entry over the summer, as I'll be abroad with no way of asking questions here. Thanks!

[Ayokillyou]

[QUOTE=tomselleck69][i]he is a crazy, inhuman machine, who averages like 50+ pages a monthQUOTE]

No way...



I used to like Paul Pope...now I love him.

[SweetNymph]

For those that work at 2x or larger the TP size, how do you scan the pages? Do you have some uber-sized scanner that I have yet to discover?

[Pedes]

For those that work at 2x or larger the TP size, how do you scan the pages? Do you have some uber-sized scanner that I have yet to discover?
I'm not speaking for myself, but I know Christy Lijevsky has A3 scanner (2xTP fits A3 page).
I don't think drawing on format bigger than 2xTP is usefull. As a test I drew a page on A3 (in 2xTP size) and printed it in TP size... Even though the lines were not very thin on original, on the printout they became ridiculously thin, details got lost... I decided to switch (back) on A4.

What makes Paul's technique so amazing is that he often uses brushes and ink all freehand~(with barely or no penciled layouts) 0____0
That reminds me of an author Grzegorz Rosinski http://www.lambiek.net/artists/r/rosinski.htm who also often draws without sketching O.O!

[SweetNymph]

I like thin lines. ^^

Hm, I wonder where one would get an A3 scanner.

[Pedes]

I like using thin lines therefore they would almost dissapear case I was drawing on A3 :|