TO ALL TOKYOPOP ARTIST, and others

[Hakufu]

:D This is mainly to Tokyopop artist(people who are artist and are working for tokyopop), other artist can contribute info. Ohh and when repling, please mention what manga/comic company your working for.

My question is:
How much does Tokyopop pay you? (yearly, ect)

and do they pay you by: yearly, # of pages, # of chapters, # of novels, or otherwise? (an if otherwise, then how?)

Ohh and what time limit does Tokyopop give you?

Like how many pages per how many days are needed?

Ex: 1 novel per 2 1/2 months

[PeterAhlstrom]

You might guess that specific contract details like payment amounts are not permitted to be discussed publicly. ;)

[Kyaa the Catlord]

Teehee. At my job, which isn't really a creative challenge unless you count the fiction I write to tell my boss what I did all night as "creative", we can't discuss what we make even between coworkers. I even had to sign a nondisclosure about it. :P

[Zorilita]

Yeah, these things are almost always held under a contract with non disclosure agreements and in some cases not only can you not discuss payment you're not even allowed to say you worked on any sort of project with a company. You do the work, you get paid and you keep quiet about it. It's a general rule about many sorts of creative jobs, and probably even other fields out there, that these things remain between contractor and contractee.

[Wolfman]

...and in some cases not only can you not discuss payment you're not even allowed to say you worked on any sort of project with a company.

Thats mad!! How do you build a portfolio with this kinda restriction? What happens if the project is your own original idea? Do you still retain the full rights etc?

[UrbanRevolution]

you make a jazillons dollers and you get free t-shirts for life!

[Hakufu]

r u serious, this sucks, how a i supposed to know if i can or cant survive as a manga-ka?

[Zorilita]

Thats mad!! How do you build a portfolio with this kinda restriction? What happens if the project is your own original idea? Do you still retain the full rights etc?


It's just the way of the business. Large companies I can't name do this frequently. The pay off though is without your name you tend to get more pay if you work freelance this way. Usually, you won't be doing your own work and under work-for-hire your boss owns the work. You have no rights to it.

[PeterAhlstrom]

People who get manga contracts with TOKYOPOP generally get enough money to live on (but not get rich on) if they work on schedule.

[Wolfman]

People who get manga contracts with TOKYOPOP generally get enough money to live on (but not get rich on) if they work on schedule.

I'd be proud if I could just say I make a living from selling my own work :D

[Pedes]

People who get manga contracts with TOKYOPOP generally get enough money to live on (but not get rich on) if they work on schedule.
Hos does sheldue look like? is it the same for all artists, or negotiable?

[LillianDP]

Hos does sheldue look like? is it the same for all artists, or negotiable?

The schedule is somewhat negotiable. I mean, it works against all of us if you're extremely slow, because we can't publish your book and make money, and we can't give *you* money until you hit your milestones (which are usually every 30 pages or so), so you run the risk of ending up being a starving artist and whatnot. :o That said, if you've got extenuating circumstances, or run into some problem halfway through, it's also not in anyone's best interest for us to crack down and be unreasonable. Hitting a moderate, but steady and maintainable pace is the way to go, and that ends up being slightly different depending on the artist.

[QueenieChan]

r u serious, this sucks, how a i supposed to know if i can or cant survive as a manga-ka?

No one is drawing manga to get rich, or even to break even (haha). Whether you can or can't survive as a manga artist depends on how quickly you can draw, and whether you can maintain a certain consistent quality to your work (they'll make you do it again, otherwise). It took me 8 months to finish "The Dreaming" v1, and it was around 180 pages, and the artwork is pretty detailed compared to other OEL manga. It should, in reality, take less than 8 months (for me).

I would suggest: Draw manga as a job, but get a part-time job on the side. That's what I do. I work Wednesdays and Thursdays each week, and get NO weekends off.

[Pedes]

The schedule is somewhat negotiable. I mean, it works against all of us if you're extremely slow, because we can't publish your book and make money, and we can't give *you* money until you hit your milestones (which are usually every 30 pages or so), so you run the risk of ending up being a starving artist and whatnot. :o That said, if you've got extenuating circumstances, or run into some problem halfway through, it's also not in anyone's best interest for us to crack down and be unreasonable. Hitting a moderate, but steady and maintainable pace is the way to go, and that ends up being slightly different depending on the artist.
But is there "deflaut setting" ;) like chapter/month, of 30 pages /month/3weeks/2 weeks (choose one)? Or kind of average of the artists speed?
I'm just wondering if I could try to get published while studying on university, or should I wait and finish it first? (especially that in my country there is college+university toghether, for example I'm on my first year from a five-year studies).

[Hakufu]

People who get manga contracts with TOKYOPOP generally get enough money to live on (but not get rich on) if they work on schedule.

When u say live on, could u narrow it down a little like is it???
$0-$10,000 (all yearly)
$10,001-$20,000
$20,001-$30,000
$30,001-$40,000
$40,001-$50,000
$50,001+

(if the artist keeps on TP's schedule)

And when u say schedule...is it like 5 books a year...cuz thats how Oda Sensei(creater of One Piece) has it.

[PeterAhlstrom]

No, can't narrow it down. Sorry.

None of our artists are doing close to 5 books a year, and it's pretty disrespectful of you to say "Oda-Chan."

[Pedes]

None of our artists are doing close to 5 books a year, and it's pretty disrespectful of you to say "Oda-Chan."
I double that. Learn the meaning of sufixes before you start to use them.

[Gabycat]

From experience in my country, nope, nope, you can't get rich from working in only one comic project, unless it becomes the big success, which only 1 out of 30 projects usually does.
When I was in the comic field, aside from my work in comics, I did freelance art for different companies not related to comics, and worked as editor and part time writer for different magazines, put all together and I barely had enough pay the rent and basic needs.
Regardless, there are comic artists that can make a decent living from working in comics, but you will see they work on more than 1 project at the same time.
From there, and from knowing how to work their related merchandise, royalties and such, is how they receive a better income.
But again, is not the rule.

Ps. Is Oda Sensei, or Oda-San, but never "chan" with the last name, please.

[Pedes]

From what I know Christy Lijevski is able to live of comics only, she's doing one for TP (RE:Play) and for Slave Labout Graphics (Next Exit). AND she's doing comissions.

[crispy]

It also depends on what kind of living situation you are in. In some parts of the country, rent and utilities are cheaper than others, hence making the pay you get from Tokyopop go farther.

At that, however, you have to be pretty timely if you expect to get a normal-ish pay schedule. They only send you checks after you've gotten a batch of pages approved.

But yeah – no one gets into creating comics to be rich – or even to be self-sufficient. :X

[Gabycat]

It also depends on what kind of living situation you are in. In some parts of the country, rent and utilities are cheaper than others, hence making the pay you get from Tokyopop go farther.

At that, however, you have to be pretty timely if you expect to get a normal-ish pay schedule. They only send you checks after you've gotten a batch of pages approved.

But yeah – no one gets into creating comics to be rich – or even to be self-sufficient. :X


Yup, its more a work of love than anything else.
Talk about TRUE altruism and pure intentions... :p

edith: forgot to add, that also those who work comics should get in line to receive Sainthood, cause its really a martirs job! XD AHAHAH!!

[Pedes]

Yup, its more a work of love than anything else.
Talk about TRUE altruism and pure intentions... :p

edith: forgot to add, that also those who work comics should get in line to receive Sainthood, cause its really a martirs job! XD AHAHAH!!
Well, it's commonly thought that artists are mental...

But.. this is true. I'm addicted to drawing. I can't go on long withought it... That's why I want it to be my job (then I'd become workaholic very soon).

[KaYoKitten]

XD I'm already a workaholic, and I'm not even getting paid for it. I don't care about the money, I just love to tell stories and DRAW. I say, to heck with the money, I'll work at Wal*Mart my whole life to pay the bills and make a book a year. XD If that's even possible, I dunno. People could just keep telling me "heck no" every time I submit somewhere.

Okay, back to topic...you said that the "milestones" are about 30 pages, which is basically a chapter, correct? Do these milestones need to be completed all the way through or can you pencil, maybe ink the whole thing before starting in on the finishing touches? Or is it a must to be totally completed?

[Pedes]

XD I'm already a workaholic, and I'm not even getting paid for it. I don't care about the money, I just love to tell stories and DRAW. I say, to heck with the money, I'll work at Wal*Mart my whole life to pay the bills and make a book a year. XD If that's even possible, I dunno. People could just keep telling me "heck no" every time I submit somewhere.

Okay, back to topic...you said that the "milestones" are about 30 pages, which is basically a chapter, correct? Do these milestones need to be completed all the way through or can you pencil, maybe ink the whole thing before starting in on the finishing touches? Or is it a must to be totally completed?
Judging from how the artist work from the "what size do you draw" topic it has to be completed :)

Am I mistaking names, or do you change your icon/sig quite often?

[PeterAhlstrom]

What counts as a milestone is also negotiable, but that's something you work out ahead of time. Like, your first milestone might be having all your thumbnails done, etc. The more discrete milestones you have, the more often you get paid--having more steps clearly defined helps some people keep on schedule better. But what works for one person may not be the best option for someone else. It's pretty flexible.

[Joanna]

It goes without saying that the faster you can draw, the more money you make.... and I'd say that most comic/manga artists do multiple projects at once, and take on other freelance work on the side. It's hard work, with little vacation time... but I find it rewarding.

I pay the bills just fine, living in Podunk Ohio... but I'm not an extravagant spender, either. Everyone is different.

[Hakufu]

No, can't narrow it down. Sorry.

None of our artists are doing close to 5 books a year, and it's pretty disrespectful of you to say "Oda-Chan."

There I fixed it, it was a mistake...

But if they were to draw 5....?

And do they(Manga-ka) get paid yearly or by how much work(drawing) they do???

PS: How much does the average manga-ka draw for u???

[Hakufu]

It goes without saying that the faster you can draw, the more money you make.... and I'd say that most comic/manga artists do multiple projects at once, and take on other freelance work on the side. It's hard work, with little vacation time... but I find it rewarding.

I pay the bills just fine, living in Podunk Ohio... but I'm not an extravagant spender, either. Everyone is different.

One of they reasons I'm asking is because If i become a manga-ka I want to do as full-time so I can draw as much as possible... and i wanted to know if i could do it full-time if i worked real hard and fast...

[LCibos]

And when u say schedule...is it like 5 books a year...cuz thats how Oda Sensei(creater of One Piece) has it.

Something you should keep in mind is that most of the OEL artists working on books for Tokyopop are either individuals or very small groups of 2 or 3. The artist of One Piece has something like 10 assistants working under them, which is the case for many Japanese manga artists.

Naturally, the larger your team, the more books a year you're able to put out. Unfortunately, in the United States, the creation of original manga is not such a large industry that an apprentice system is in place yet... but hopefully someday. ^_^

[KaYoKitten]

Am I mistaking names, or do you change your icon/sig quite often?

^^; I recently did make a change, yes, but only because I've been using that particular avatar for nearly a year elsewhere, and it was getting old. Plus, I wanted to fiddle more with my Manga Pro! ^_^ I am still the same UK who had the little kanji-to-flag-to-heart avatar. And I change sigs often enough to keep myself entertained. ^^;

At any rate, so you're saying that the milestones are different for each artist...hmm...I would have thought something completely different, but perhaps that is because I've never actually met a manga-ka aside from myself who would actually talk about the production with me. I'm learning a lot about other manga-ka here, and it's definitely helping my art improve (thanks, TP! thanks, fellow manga-ka!).

Another question, and this is a rather clever way of me trying to get more info out of the artists. ^_~ Where do each of the manga-ka LIVE, city and state, and do you have a side-job? Queenie-chan's stated that she needs a part-time job to supplement (and I'll probably join her there if I do get a job as a manga-ka). Aren't I the clever one? You can answer that, and we still get a general idea. ^^; Well, mostly. We don't know how extravagent a spender you are, for instance, but you can infer from that information the basic living expenses for each area. ^^; There are more factors, but that's good enough for me!

[Hakufu]

Something you should keep in mind is that most of the OEL artists working on books for Tokyopop are either individuals or very small groups of 2 or 3. The artist of One Piece has something like 10 assistants working under them, which is the case for many Japanese manga artists.

Naturally, the larger your team, the more books a year you're able to put out. Unfortunately, in the United States, the creation of original manga is not such a large industry that an apprentice system is in place yet... but hopefully someday. ^_^

I know this....

[Pedes]

Naturally, the larger your team, the more books a year you're able to put out. Unfortunately, in the United States, the creation of original manga is not such a large industry that an apprentice system is in place yet... but hopefully someday. ^_^

Consider yourself lucky. In Poland drawign comics can at most be considered a side-job or a hobby... And I've given up hope for improvement of this situation in <20 years.
That's why...

*Smiles to TP*

[DeathJr]

i've got no damn hope of making it but.......................... what the hell its what i wanna do despite the lack of information about pay, and lack of known structure(meaning no clear cut path or pattern for going about becoming an artist)

[YamPuff]

Maybe we shouldn't be getting into legal stuff, but why can't anyone say how much they're making? I know because of this contract thing, but why is there a contract? Is it some silly law or is there a tangible reason?

(Ooh, tangible...note my awesome yet somehow out-of-place vocab)

[headmistress]

You need a contract when two parties (in this case, TP and the creators) are involved in any business agreement, in order to ensure that everyone is aware of and agrees to both their responsibilities and their compensation. In the case of creative work it is especially important because a legal transfer of publication rights must take place to satisfy copyright law.

A company has a legal right to keep inner financial details out of the public eye. The amount and method by which they are paying their contractees is one of those financial details. It may seem like not a big deal, but this sort of information can be used by rival companies to undermine and run a company out of business. There's no guarantee that it WOULD be used so, but it is wise not to take undue risks.

It also helps prevent conflict between contractees - if A is getting paid 12 boxes of Froot Loops as their advance and B gets 10 boxes of Coco Puffs, B might get mad that A is getting more boxes, and A might get mad that their cereal isn't chocolate, even if they were otherwise happy with and agreed to the terms.

Bridget

[Wolfman]

It also helps prevent conflict between contractees - if A is getting paid 12 boxes of Froot Loops as their advance and B gets 10 boxes of Coco Puffs, B might get mad that A is getting more boxes, and A might get mad that their cereal isn't chocolate, even if they were otherwise happy with and agreed to the terms.

Bridget

Absolute class lol

[YamPuff]

Yum...cereal.

Thanks for the reply; I was wondering. So it all comes down to da Froop Loops, eh?

Ok, 'nother question: aren't authors paid, not for the pages they write, but are given a precentage of every book they sell? Manga-ka are different? I mean, from what I've heard, Tokyopop would give you the same amount of cash for a book that sold a million copies as one that only sold a thousand. Confuzzled.

[Elae]

I believe TP gives artists an advance payment- only when the books sell so well that the artists have basically "paid Tokyopop back" do they start receiving a percentage of the sales... but from what I've heard, not many actually sell so well that they get that percentage.
This is all hearsay, though.

[PeterAhlstrom]

That's the way most fiction books from other publishers work as well. The author gets royalties, but first they get an advance on their royalties, so they have to earn that back.

[KaYoKitten]

^_^ Also, some novel companies do pay by the page when doing this--which is another reason why some editors try their best to slash stuff that doesn't absolutely need to be in the book! lol

[YamPuff]

Ooooooohhh, thanx guys. I was wondering. XD Now I'm wondering why these manga titles don't do so well...if of course that rumor's true. It's all pretty depressing...

[headmistress]

I think it speaks more for the generosity of the advances than anything else. OEL manga are new on the market, and the manga market isn't THAT big, so it will take some time for the success of any of these titles to be proven.

Bridget

[crispy]

What you say about the market not being fully mature right now seems to really ring true. It'll be interesting to see how some of these OEL that have sold their first volume so well will faire when the second one comes out. I'm interested in THOSE numbers, more than I am in the initial sales.

But I loved your analogy, Bridget. It really made sense to me. I had been wondering why there was such a huge OMG HUSH HUSH confidentiality clause in the TP contract.

[YamPuff]

But I loved your analogy, Bridget. It really made sense to me. I had been wondering why there was such a huge OMG HUSH HUSH confidentiality clause in the TP contract.
Me too...but the Fruit Loops made it all clear...there is more to that tootie fruttie cereal than u might think. XD

Well...there has to be some market for it, prefeably growing, and Tokyopop must be making money out of it, the artists as well...or they simply wouldn't do it. It all comes down to the bengamins as once I was told.

[crispy]

Well...there has to be some market for it, prefeably growing, and Tokyopop must be making money out of it, the artists as well...or they simply wouldn't do it. It all comes down to the bengamins as once I was told.

Oh, I'm not saying that there's no market for it -- it's just that the anime and manga market is small comparatively. It's growing, but compared to actual BOOK sales, it hardly holds up. And at that, books don't even sell as well as the more modern forms of entertainment these days.

I think Tokyopop is banking on one of their series hitting it big, and being able to capitalize off of its success. Whether that comes from making a movie or a TV animation based on the book, it's anyone's guess. All companies do that though, so it wouldn't surprise me if that was part of the motivation behind the OEL movement -- home grown success means more money for the farmer. And with that, they can attempt to harvest more talent. After all -- a great success with one project can probably finance 10 other failures and make up the difference.

[YamPuff]

-- home grown success means more money for the farmer.
Mmmm, corn.

Yes; that definately makes sense. =^-^= If Dramacon, for example, made an international sucess, than they could make an anime...make more manga...*sigh*

[tacto]

I was wondering how many books of a given OEL get printed? I could not find that info in the volumes themselves. Does anyone know? And what is the average sale for a book? Starting from how many is it considered "a success"?