Discussion: theoretical water engine

[Aratos]

So here's the scenario: a water-powered car engine. It takes in water, it releases three waste materials: oxygen, hydrogen and water vapour. The latter is firmly in the minority release.

This car will give you a good number of miles to the litre, at least comparable to what you're going to get from petrol.

Assuming for the sake of discussion that such a scenario is possible (it's not), would you buy a vehicle running on such an engine? Why? Why not? Discuss.

[Tajtan]

How much does the vehicle cost and does the water freeze overnight when it's winter? What is the pick-up like when you drive? Ever driven a hybrid? Weirdest thing ever. It's like if you step on the gas quickly it can't decide if it should use gas or water so you lag until it decides and then *klunk* it starts to go.

[Kaoru]

I bet it'd be slow as hell.

[TheBohemian]

I think I've seen these before on the Jetsons. D:

Wouldn't a hydrogen fueled car be more fuel-efficient?

[LKK6144]

So here's the scenario: a water-powered car engine. It takes in water, it releases three waste materials: oxygen, hydrogen and water vapour. The latter is firmly in the minority release.
In many parts of the world, water is as precious a dwindling resource as carbon fossil fuels are. Many evironmental economists predict that access to water will become a major socio-political and economic crisis within our lifetime. You may not be aware of this growing problem in the damp British Isles, but here in the US, it's already a problem. Not just in the traditional desert areas like the Southwest but also in areas not normally thought of as dry like Southeastern seaboard states which suffered record droughts last summer. Your water-powered car may be good for reducing carbon dioxide emissions and good for reducing our dependence on fossil fuel. But it would be trading one dwindling resource for another even more valuable dwindling resource. I don't think water-powered cars would be a good solution to the problems with gas-powered cars.

[Kaoru]

Which means we need moar hydrogen car research.

[Aratos]

In many parts of the world, water is as precious a dwindling resource as carbon fossil fuels are. Many evironmental economists predict that access to water will become a major socio-political and economic crisis within our lifetime. You may not be aware of this growing problem in the damp British Isles, but here in the US, it's already a problem. Not just in the traditional desert areas like the Southwest but also in areas not normally thought of as dry like Southeastern seaboard states which suffered record droughts last summer. Your water-powered car may be good for reducing carbon dioxide emissions and good for reducing our dependence on fossil fuel. But it would be trading one dwindling resource for another even more valuable dwindling resource. I don't think water-powered cars would be a good solution to the problems with gas-powered cars.

Bingo. Just the point I was looking for.

So what if we say the water power car's twice as efficient as petrol and work in a way to convert some of the lost water vapour back into water. Anyone interested then?

[FujikageDaiki]

I find electromagnets might work better. Theoretically, it requires only electricity, and the potential difference can easily be replenished with all of the magnetic force output.

[TheBohemian]

Which means we need moar hydrogen car research.
I endorse this.
I find electromagnets might work better. Theoretically, it requires only electricity, and the potential difference can easily be replenished with all of the magnetic force output.
How long does an electric car run these days before the battery's drained?

[FujikageDaiki]

I hear good things about electric cars and hybrids.

I really want a Tesla Roadster.

[TheBohemian]

I'm thinking of the new Civic hybrid after I get some more of my debt paid down. :3

[Jatz]

I wouldn't want one. Instead of depleting oil reserves we'd be depleting our water supply.

[Kaoru]

See but water is semi-renewable no?

[TheBohemian]

It 's more renewable than oil, but climate change and drought's a bigger problem than it was before.

[Kaoru]

That climate change is a bitch huh. My mom melted due to theat 1 degree temp change : (

[Aratos]

I like climate change. The wonders of the earth's orbit, eh?

[Kaoru]

Yays for climate change : D

[Aratos]

Three cheers for climate change!

[LKK6144]

So what if we say the water power car's twice as efficient as petrol and work in a way to convert some of the lost water vapour back into water. Anyone interested then?
That makes your water-powered car more viable than before obviously. Now I'm beginning to be interested.

Hubby and I discussed the possibility of a water-powered car last night. He pointed out that the energy input required to break about the hydrogen-oxygen molecular bond is be greater than the energy output resulting from the breakup. So it wouldn't be too efficient a use of energy. (At least, I think that's what he said. I was driving at the time, so I wasn't paying full attention to the chemistry involved.)

[Kaoru]

We need cars that run on dirt 8-3

[FujikageDaiki]

I wouldn't want one. Instead of depleting oil reserves we'd be depleting our water supply.
70% of the Earth is water, and it's highly renewable, seeing as most of the universe is hydrogen, and there's plenty of oxygen to go around.

[Jatz]

70% of the Earth is water, and it's highly renewable, seeing as most of the universe is hydrogen, and there's plenty of oxygen to go around.
See but water is semi-renewable no?

Ah, but who is going to make it? Now I may be wrong about this but there is no natural process to make water on Earth.

[Kaoru]

Ah, but who is going to make it? Now I may be wrong about this but there is no natural process to make water on Earth.
Yo, renewable as in reusable >_>

[Aratos]

I can think of some natural processes that leave water as a product...

[FujikageDaiki]

Ah, but who is going to make it? Now I may be wrong about this but there is no natural process to make water on Earth.
Um, water is made in many different ways, as Aratos said. We have cars that produce hydrogen gas, which can often contribute to the making of clouds. Which equals rain.

[Jatz]

Yo, renewable as in reusable >_>
He said that the water would be, for the most part, destroyed in the engine.

I can think of some natural processes that leave water as a product...
What process?
Um, water is made in many different ways, as Aratos said. We have cars that produce hydrogen gas, which can often contribute to the making of clouds. Which equals rain.
I said natural. In order to maintain the amount of water we have the devices that produce water have to make more then we consume.

Aside from that, I've never heard of an engine that produces hydrogen gas. Consumes it yes, but not producing it.

[Aratos]

What process?


Well you can get water vapour from, if memory serves,. burning hydrogen. Or was it something to do with hydrochloric acid reacting with certain chemicals? I forget. Long time since I did chemistry...

And as fuji said, hydrogen gas makes rain etc. It's aprt of THE WATER CYCLE!!!

[FujikageDaiki]

Sorry, I meant to say consumes hydrogen gas, and lets out water.

[Kaoru]

>_> Leave this thread Jatz.

[Jatz]

Well you can get water vapour from, if memory serves,. burning hydrogen. Or was it something to do with hydrochloric acid reacting with certain chemicals? I forget. Long time since I did chemistry...

And as fuji said, hydrogen gas makes rain etc. It's aprt of THE WATER CYCLE!!!
Hydrogen doesn't spontaneously make water. Someone or something has to do it. If it's man-made, would the cost of production be low enough to make a profit? Since you can get water from the tap for way cheap I don't think so. If it's natural is it enough to offset the consumption? Well let's see. According to this article (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question417.htm) the U.S. consumes 146,000,000,000 gallons of gas per year. I don't know how up-to-date this number this is but let's just go with that number. Aratos said his hypothetical engine is twice as efficient as a gasoline engine, this lowers the number to 73,000,000,000. Do you think any natural process produces 73,000,000,000 gallons of water per year?

[FujikageDaiki]

Actually, I hate to say this, but the process for making water is a reaction classified as "spontaneous". I thought that was funny. But basically it means that to make water, given the necessary gases in the air, plus dry weather, water can form up high. Funny how that works.

The main problem I see now with these ideas for water engines is greed. If someone were to actually make one, I'm sure Exxon or someone would buy the plans from the maker for a couple million dollars, and delete them from existence, so that their business is not ruined. A man I know brought that up in a discussion on the future of gas in America.

[TheBohemian]

True.
If someone develops a working model of a water engine and refuses to sell, he/she will have to get put in Witness Protection or sommat. >_<

[Aratos]

Did you know someone did actually invent a lightbulb that doesn't eventually stop working? True.

[Tajtan]

And that has what to do with a theoretical water engine?

[nikitia]

Hydrogen doesn't spontaneously make water
<.<
But doesn't hydrogen + oxygen make water? H2O isn't it.

edit: i just remembered grade 10 chemistry; my brain hurts now D:

[Aratos]

<.<
But doesn't hydrogen + oxygen make water? H2O isn't it.


Short answer: Yes.

Long answer: Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssss ssss.

[Jatz]

Actually, I hate to say this, but the process for making water is a reaction classified as "spontaneous". I thought that was funny. But basically it means that to make water, given the necessary gases in the air, plus dry weather, water can form up high. Funny how that works.

The main problem I see now with these ideas for water engines is greed. If someone were to actually make one, I'm sure Exxon or someone would buy the plans from the maker for a couple million dollars, and delete them from existence, so that their business is not ruined. A man I know brought that up in a discussion on the future of gas in America.

Okay, but does it produce 73,000,000,000 gallons per year?

[FujikageDaiki]

Yes. A gallon isn't much.

@Niki-There's plenty of oxygen in the air, and lack of pressure makes some gas reactions easier.

@Aratos- I forget where, but I know that some fire department has a lightbulb that's been on for the past 100 years. The reason it hasn't burned out is because of it's thicker filament. However, thicker filaments aren't as bright.

[Jatz]

No but 73,000,000,000 is a lot, especially if you're working with molecules.

[FujikageDaiki]

The Earth's atmosphere is huge, and whereeever there is a low-pressure system working its way around the globe, plenty of water is being synthesized, and mixing in with the condensation nuclei that harbors the evaporated water. The Earth is constantly creating water and losing water via chemical processes, and that much water could be produced. If I can find the numbers and punch them in correctly, I should be able to find out the true theoretical values of water production on Earth.

All reactions go molecule by molecule, but billions of molecules of water are probably being produced each second, so it is possible.

[Jatz]

I guess so. I still don't think it would be a good idea to use something like that as a fuel source.

[Kaoru]

I guess so. I still don't think it would be a good idea to use something like that as a fuel source.http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v317/CRUMMER/buttsecks/b799a357.jpg

[madi]

there is such a thing as water powered cars this guy in america did it. im sure you can find it on the net if not check out UFO the greatest story ever denied i know your not talking about aliens but it gets a mention

[Aratos]

there is such a thing as water powered cars this guy in america did it. im sure you can find it on the net if not check out UFO the greatest story ever denied i know your not talking about aliens but it gets a mention



No, this guy in America claimed he could make a car run on water, and sold his formula to Henry Ford for mucho casho. It's generally accepted he was a very good can artist.

Oh, adn there was another guy who claimed to have managed it, but there was no proof,a dna c few other folk who likewise got in trouble for fraud when they claimed it. There's been no proof of a water-pwoered car, regardless of what the conspiricists claim.

[edit]
I check out wiki, and aparently some Japanese company claims to have made a water powered car, as does some sri-lankan group or other.

[Kaoru]

No, this guy in America claimed he could make a car run on water, and sold his formula to Henry Ford for mucho casho. It's generally accepted he was a very good can artist.
This some kinda odd Toast attempt at humor or what?

[Aratos]

Actually it's a typo -_-;;;

[jnette]

There was a model of this car being tested in La a couple of years ago. At the time it was originally slated for a 5 year wait for american release. But I think it's been pushed ahead for mass marketing. However if people are in a rush they can buy converter kits online.

I love this car but like someone said it's probably slow and I'm thinking not ideal for anything but city driving. Which doesn't work for me. So sad :(

Here are couple of links. One is the BMW vertion and the other is the Toyota model.

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Uniquely/FutureTechnologies/Hydrogen.aspx?enc=t0eBkkksaeOlO9zOt8gzADZCvgwlYpsT NlAXDAkk1+s=

http://www.toyota.com/about/whynot/index.html?gclid=CIfNrJze3pYCFRPyDAodTB_R3A