College vs. Career?

[Rem Akimichi]

So, for everyone who has been in college or is currently in college and draws manga professionally (whether as a popular online webcomic or through a publishing company such as this) the question goes: Do you or did you find it exceptionally difficult to keep up with both at the same time?

And, the title doesn't really have room for it, but this applies to things like jobs and children too.

I mean, I know social pressures and whatnot will always be there, so those don't really count (er, well...), but do you ever feel like you have to give up one for the other?

If you're intrested, my reasoning behind the questions is that I'm looking at 6+ years of college (two in community until I can get to IGETC standards and then four for my degree, possibly more if needed). And while theres no way I'm dropping from college, I'd like to take a stab at making manga professionally in the near future, i.e. NOT 6 years from now.

Also, I'm just curious like that ^_^

EDIT: I think most people misunderstood me when I asked this: I meant, how do you, who are in or were in college, juggle doing both college (or work or what have you) and your manga?

HOWEVER! Since there are a lot of posts on the subject, please feel free to discuss the merits of college helping or hindering your art ^_^

[Shipuh]

im actually considering dropping all college and go straight into the art industry. id also like to hear some stories for people who choose this method.

[JayneCobb]

I have several stories from people so I'll recount them for you. Mind you don't consider dropping out and going for it unless you know your portfolio will get you a job. If you have a portfolio right now and you haven't landed a job yet, don't go for it, get a degree in something else while doing art, or if you're insecure then just get a degree in art. HOWEVER, a lot of artists coming out of art college don't have jobs because most of it is your abillity and also the people you know.

KK these stories are all different so, listen up!

The closest story I could recount that's near your thoughts is my best friend whose 20 years old. HE finished only community, and was going to go to art center but got his portfolio stolen...which kind of put him down in the dumps. However, now he's working for comics like red sonja, coloring, doing character designs for video games, texturing for activsion,a nd also has a contract with cartoon network. HOW? HIS LIFE DRAWING SKILLS ARE SUPERB, as well as his anime, characterizations and coloring. If you don't have life drawing down, coloring, and different styles all bunched up in one portfolio then i HIGHLY recommend not quitting school. You're not ready for the industry. My best friend didn't just get these jobs out of the blue. During high school he was already going to peopel's houses doing oil portraiture as well as coloring for comics. His life drawing was that strong--if yours isn't consider a lot of heavy practice. He knows some stories I think, and I believe one of his friends whose quite young did the character designs for the boondocks or something. Oh yeah I should mention that because if his skill a lot of people have in the past told him that they were willing to pay all the tuition to how many years of art center he wanted to go to. He turned them down though because he already has work and frankly doesn't need the degree.

There are other stories too, and although they dont pertain to dropping out of college, they pertain heavily on whether or not to get an art degree.

I knew this movie illustrator who told me when he was a teen, he was majoring in biochemistry but he really, really wanted to do art. When he finally decided to switch to art instead his parents were REALLY, really angry with him. But his move was good, cuz now he's firggin rich and famous (in the movie illustration world anyways) he's done so many ads for all the movies you see out, like star wars, xmen 3, something with tim allen that hasnt been talked about yet, and other things i can't mention cuz no one knows about it yet. Yeah, but this was through intense practice, practice, practice.

One teacher (my very first AUTHENTIC ART TEACHER) of mine I was fortunate to have had for a semester is a "master" of our time (he learned from fixler, who learned from reiley or something i think, who learned from bridgeman (the one who did the constructive anatomy books, bokos of 100 hands, etc) and also a movie illustrator. When he was a teen he was accepted to all the top law schools in the country, but decided he wanted to do art instead...of course his parents didn't like the idea, and now he's...well, great. And a lot of people who have gone to his classes and have gone through art college have all told me, don't go, don't go, don't go, it's a waste of time and money and energy. My teacher personally told me that he blieved I did not need the degree either, and I should strongly consider getting a different degree while setting an intense fine art study schedule for myself. Although, if you feel that you cannot learn by yourself or do not have the fortune of having a private art school somewhere where you can learn life drawing, then get an art degree.

A lot of kids that have gone under his instruction have had lots of luck in life. I remember one story he told me about one of his students that was more into designing cars than anythihng, i'm not sure if she finished high school or not--anyways, through lots of events she finally found herself in a car design studio owned by some really famous guy he does stuff for cars in movies and crap. And he happened to walk by when she was begging the receptionist to have him look at her portfolio. He took a look at it, and in no time she got up there, way up there. She's 21 now I believe and is rich, bought herself and her mom a house and everything. Another one of his students was attending community and then finally found his stuff accepted and published in times (if you saw the cover where bush is in a devil suit behind an american flag, that was his painting) yeah, and he's doing well now. Another one whose class I attend is now a famous fine arts guy. I'm not sure about his educational background, all i know was that he studied under my teacher and now he's well known for his life drawings and is a teacher in a private art school.

Uh so yeah that was long.

[Loverofpiggies]

XD Forget college! Manga artists all the way! XD Thats what I wanna do.

[shady]

I feel like having a good education in the long run will help me become a better artist, and story teller. Most of my inspiration comes from my own experience, and as such college provides a lot of that. That being said, I'm hoping to get an Art degree as well, if only to help myself focus on the technical aspects of art as well as well, comics. This may or may not work (the degree that is- classes are really difficult to get into in order to fulfill the requirements), but either way, I feel like when I leave college in 2009, I'll be 100% a better artist than I am now, because I gave myself the time to develop into someone with better abilities. I feel impatient to do a full fledge graphic novel, like a lot of people...but I'm what, nearly 19 years old? I think I'll have plenty of time to realize that dream.

Anyway, I have a webcomic and yes, it's extremely hard to keep up with when you're in college. However, I'm finding a lot of this is my fault for not being organized enough, which I will be working on a lot now.

Also, when you're in a situation like this, doing shorter stories/mini-comics and self publishing them to sell at cons, stuff like that is also a viable option, if only as stepping blocks to your eventual graphic novel later on. That's what I'm planning to do, at least. You don't wait until you're recognized- you make yourself recognized...so what better to do than that? :)

[kazuchiyo]

College is hard, time-consuming and expensive.
That said, it is the best use of 4 (or 3, or 5, whatever!) years and best monetary investment you can ever make.

I was in the art program at my school, and going in, I though I knew what was best for me and thought I knew what I was doing.
School challenged every thought and experience I had had up to that point and forged me into a better person, a stronger artist, a better speaker and thinking, and much more confident person then I would have EVER been without going.

And to think that I hadn't wanted to go! :o

[JayneCobb]

XD Forget college! Manga artists all the way! XD Thats what I wanna do.

:eek:

honestly for you, you should think about going...

[Shipuh]

ive heard alot of bad stories though about people going to college and the art programs suck at the public ones.

so if i do decide on college, it will be someplace private. (but thats hella expensive!!...the whole reason im thinking about skipping it.)

dont get me wrong, id like to go to college, but i think though that id probably be able to atleast land a stable job too right after highschool.

i need to go move someplace thats art-competative like major cities in the new england area.

im looking about going into broadcast design, which is heavily more focused on the learning of a software more than your art itself. of course taking a nice advanced color theory and design course at a local college would help, but i believe i have a good sense of composition and design at this point. :\

i guess id have to find someplace to hire me...and until then, work at my church or something. :\

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all those who want to be comic artists, i reccomend you get really interested in all forms of sequential art, such as story boarding for films and illustratative books.

JayneCobb is right as well...don't just draw anime...you really have to learn to draw from life, and draw from life WELL to make it.

good luck to everyone in their career paths! whatever you decide.

[JayneCobb]

ive heard alot of bad stories though about people going to college and the art programs suck at the public ones.

so if i do decide on college, it will be someplace private. (but thats hella expensive!!...the whole reason im thinking about skipping it.)

dont get me wrong, id like to go to college, but i think though that id probably be able to atleast land a stable job too right after highschool.


you're youuuuung sipuh, keep up your great stuff and i think you can do it ^ ^ you're like, REAL good for ur age and i'm jealous XD

yeah private, even though it's expensive and non accredited, is way cheaper than going to art college and paying 1000 something per class... i'm thinking of going for a degree in architecture while still going to the private art schools to learn fine art.
if u live in ca check out http://www.laafigart.com/ and http://www.calartinst.com/home.html, they're definitely worth it, i think there's also one in san diego and somewhere else, i forgot.

[rivkah]

So, for everyone who has been in college or is currently in college and draws manga professionally (whether as a popular online webcomic or through a publishing company such as this) the question goes: Do you or did you find it exceptionally difficult to keep up with both at the same time?

And, the title doesn't really have room for it, but this applies to things like jobs and children too.

I never went to college, but I juggled both a full time job and running my own business when I first got started out. But . . . eventually I had to drop both. Doing the whole drive to work, work 9-5, and get home in the evenings doesn't really fit into my schedule, I guess. Even taking freelance jobs is something I have to be careful about as it's easy to overburden and fall behind.

Honestly, I don't think I could manage both school and this. My mind is too one-track. But I do still get out every week to attend life drawing sessions. I may not go to art school, but it's always useful to find ways to keep on honing your skills, and it's still possible to make use of the local art school's classes and facilities without attending full-time. :)

And I can't IMAGINE having kids while doing this. That's just insane.

[Shipuh]

you're youuuuung sipuh, keep up your great stuff and i think you can do it ^ ^ you're like, REAL good for ur age and i'm jealous XD

yeah private, even though it's expensive and non accredited, is way cheaper than going to art college and paying 1000 something per class... i'm thinking of going for a degree in architecture while still going to the private art schools to learn fine art.
if u live in ca check out http://www.laafigart.com/ and http://www.calartinst.com/home.html, they're definitely worth it, i think there's also one in san diego and somewhere else, i forgot.

*offtopic*
where did you see my art? @___@;;

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my dream college at the moment is Savannah College of Art and Design (http://www.scad.edu/) at the Atlanta campus. XD I want to major in Broadcast Design and Motion Graphics there, and possibly a dual in illustration or sequential art. ^^;

finish japanese too at some community college and start korean.

[JayneCobb]

your website! duh!

[Shipuh]

your website! duh!

[offTopic]

but i dont have artwork up there! XD its a blog. my gallery is at my deviantart.

((inserts conspicious looking link here (http://www.deviantart.com/view/27521536/))) >___>;; *shifty eyes* ((and here (http://www.deviantart.com/view/30841514/)))

my da doesnt usually feature anything special or serious. v__v; but those are some of my favorite recent pieces.

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holeh crap!! your artwork is amazing o_____o;;

[/end offTopic]

[JayneCobb]

but your blog does have a link to your devart!!!! *bonks on head*

nice pieces XD

[ddr tatsujin]

All I have to say is; everyone avoid the Kansas City Art Institute. I went there last year for illustration and they dropped the entire program for animation in the last quarter of the year. They told all of us that we could switch to animation because "illustration is dying and no one will use it in the next 15 years." How stupid do they think we are?! Anyway, I recommend college for anyone but if you have talent...and I'm not talking about "jane said my art is good and so does everyone else" I'm talking about drive, dedication, motivation and all around knowledge of the human form talent, then go for it.

[thePatches]

College is always a good investment since it's been proven that usually the person with the degree will get paid higher than the person w/o the degree. Not to mention it tells employers "Hey! I got straigt A's doing really hard stuff. That means I know how to manage my time, do good art and meet specifications and deadlines!" All great things that many artists never learn >.>

[rivkah]

College is always a good investment since it's been proven that usually the person with the degree will get paid higher than the person w/o the degree. Not to mention it tells employers "Hey! I got straigt A's doing really hard stuff. That means I know how to manage my time, do good art and meet specifications and deadlines!" All great things that many artists never learn >.>

Real life isn't like that <i>at all</i>. Employers don't care about grades and many don't care about the degree as long as you know what you're doing. I may have never gone to college but I've been Art Director for several mid-sized companies and worked in some form of the print industry since I was 17. It's always been easy for me to get a job because employers are <i>much</i> more impressed by somebody who's taught themselves the ins and outs of the industry because they believe it shows ambition, dedication, and a willingness to keep learning--an essential for any new job. What employers want is PROOF of ability and a portfolio of past work shows that much better than any degree can.

And seriously . . . I'd be $80,000 in debt right now if I hadn't changed my mind about going to SCAD. It'd take me what . . . decades to pay that off when I'd be making just as much without it? Stand-alone art classes are wonderful because they're inexpensive and you only have to focus on what you WANT to learn without the excess cr*p classes. Professional degrees for medicine, teaching, and law are certainly essential because you can't practice without them. But shelling out the cash for a degree in art? Unless you have the money to throw around (which most of us don't), then it seems frivolous and impractical.

[JayneCobb]

rivkah i lurve u XD

[Elae]

But shelling out the cash for a degree in art? Unless you have the money to throw around (which most of us don't), then it seems frivolous and impractical.

I'd disagree- while yes, the actual degree is pretty pointless, the experience and insights I've gained (and am still gaining) into the art world are what I believe to be a huge aid to those interested in pursuing art, but uncertain of the possibilities, or what the art world currently -is-. Most people coming into my school are pretty naive, especially about contemporary art culture, etc. It opens people up to the world they're interested in entering, whether it be illustration, animation, or fine arts. It's not by any means necessary, and it's definitely not for everyone. But I'm not in art school for the degree- I'm here to be taught by people who are themselves practicing artists and can provide insights into how to be successful without compromising your work.
And there are definitely some jobs in art where having a degree is an asset- our Science/Biomedical Communications major wouldn't be around if it weren't. Interior and Industrial Design are pretty tough fields to break into if you haven't been trained. People interested in becoming museum curators, going to grad school, etc... and even for those just wanting to be practicing artists, the experience of being surrounded by people passionate about what they're doing is pretty inspiring.

[Gaara]

Actually Rivkah thats wrong......to know what your doing you go to college to learn that....if you already know what your doing they still wont employ you if you don't have a high degree.....only some of the time they do, and if you believe that going to college makes no difference then your in for a biiiig suprise.....:eek: :eek: :D

[Ganter]

hmm yeah going to art school helped me a lot, and I didn't have the cash to shell out to get it. I had a lot of financial aid and am still paying back my college loans for my precious cartooning BFA haha~ I don't regret it one bit though, I learned so much at SVA and I made lifelong friends. I can also say that art school isn't for everyone, I have friends that are doing exceptionally well and never went to art school. But then again, some of the best illustrators I know have degrees in an area of art be animation or illustration, and have moved on to work in film and games. I don't think it's a matter of whether it helps people in general or not, but maybe it's better to just think whether it'll help yourself or not. There's always more than one way to reach a goal.

[Tentopet]

Actually Rivkah thats wrong......to know what your doing you go to college to learn that....if you already know what your doing they still wont employ you if you don't have a high degree.....only some of the time they do, and if you believe that going to college makes no difference then your in for a biiiig suprise.....:eek: :eek: :D

Lol...

Uhm, I'm with Elae on this...art school isn't useless, but it's up to the person whether it'd be worth it or not. The degree doesn't always mean something, but the experiences do. And hey, it forces you to do art you wouldn't usually want to do, which in my opinion, forces you to face things you should work on. Not that I WENT to art school, but I'm not about to knock all that time, money and hard work people put into improving themselves!!

I'm of the opinion that unless you really have something set up for you in life, go to college...for SOMETHING. Doesn't need to be art school. In fact, anything I think can make you a better artist, and hey, learn to like different things so that you're not retarded in everything but art! (not that I'm saying people are who haven't done non-art schooling, but you get what I mean). DON'T avoid college in the hopes that you'll get a break in some industry. If you've gotten that break, or have a pretty stellar job, that's another thing (although you may consider college even then), but yeah. That's my teacherly advice!

[rivkah]

Elae,

I guess I come off a little strong on the subject because the idea of spending half of your tuition on core curricular classes in order to attain that degree appals me. I'd much rather pay $10-50 to read a book than pay $100-$1000 to listen to a teacher who simply points me back to the same books. And I can't even begin to tell you of the stories I have of going through prospective graphic designers' resumes and realizing that out of a thousand applicants with degrees, it's the one without a degree who can even do a simple drop shadow in Photoshop (without taking thirty minutes to figure it out first) which is perhaps the FIRST thing anybody ever learns to do in the program, and there are about eight different very efficient ways to do it. -_-; Or my friends who complain that they can't find a job in their field and end up working the white-collar 9-5 at DELL selling computers, when their major was in Political Science. I just wish people would realize that there's more to building a career than going to school, and that there are many economical alternatives to college education that can get you just as far, if not further.

However, what it ultimately boils down to is the kind of learner you are. Many people require outside motivation in order to figure out what they want to do with their life and to learn. Yet many others prefer the route of self-learning and the ability to pace themselves--learning as quickly or as slowly as they choose. Personally, I'd go nuts in a classroom. I need my freedom and my independence to learn. But others enjoy that structure, and for them . . . I'm certain college is perfect.

[rivkah]

Actually Rivkah thats wrong......to know what your doing you go to college to learn that....if you already know what your doing they still wont employ you if you don't have a high degree.....only some of the time they do, and if you believe that going to college makes no difference then your in for a biiiig suprise.....:eek: :eek: :D

Having proper spelling and grammar is also important to landing a good job. :rolleyes:

[JayneCobb]

Actually Rivkah thats wrong......to know what your doing you go to college to learn that....if you already know what your doing they still wont employ you if you don't have a high degree.....only some of the time they do, and if you believe that going to college makes no difference then your in for a biiiig suprise.....:eek: :eek: :D

no one's right and wrong. however, who will one hire? someone whose works look like, lets just use an example, travis charest, or one who graduated from art center and works look like...well, crap? and they're both about the same age?...

in some art fields like architecture, 3d art and car design, of course you'll need a degree for that...but honestly, for illustration and fine arts there's no need if you're willing to train yourself.

[Gaara]

rivkah if your intelligent and have good qualities as well as a good college application then you could get a full scholarship and pay for diddley, thats what i'm doing

[JayneCobb]

rivkah if your intelligent and have good qualities as well as a good college application then you could get a full scholarship and pay for diddley, thats what i'm doing

first off it's not that easy. you're competing against thousands of kids who want in just like you do.

also just because you get into a prestigious art college it doesn't autmotically make you the best artist in the world. they're not miracle workers, you really have to work hard at it. It just depends on who wants the guidance and security an art college will provide them or those who feel comfortable enough to learn on their own.

[Gaara]

i know it's not that easy....dude my sister got a full scholarship to UC Davis and i'm way smarter than her and more athletic and i'm her younger bro! I don't want to sit here an type everything that is needed to get a scholarship...

[Elae]

Elae,

I guess I come off a little strong on the subject because the idea of spending half of your tuition on core curricular classes in order to attain that degree appals me. I'd much rather pay $10-50 to read a book than pay $100-$1000 to listen to a teacher who simply points me back to the same books. And I can't even begin to tell you of the stories I have of going through prospective graphic designers' resumes and realizing that out of a thousand applicants with degrees, it's the one without a degree who can even do a simple drop shadow in Photoshop (without taking thirty minutes to figure it out first) which is perhaps the FIRST thing anybody ever learns to do in the program, and there are about eight different very efficient ways to do it. -_-;

Your comment makes sense, and I'm sure a lot of people feel that way- I mean, how is art supposed to be graded, anyways? There are some art schools that are pointless wastes of money, I'm sure... with teachers who aren't practicing artists and never have been, without the experience to draw on. But personally, I've never had -any- of my teachers refer me to a book to teach me how to draw. They may mention books that we may (individually) be inspired by and may show slides for us to see examples of color theory, etc, but it's not like we're given textbooks to study and learn from... I'm sure some majors may have reference materials, for learning programs/what have you, but for the most part it's a step-by-step learning process that the teacher shows, or it's them going around and individually telling you what you should work on, what's strong, individual projects they'd be interested in seeing you do... One-on-one feedback is the best part about going to art school, in my opinion. There's nothing like a constant critique from someone who's been out there actually doing what you're interested in.
There are, of course, plenty people who really shouldn't be in art school, who can't think outside of the box and have no sense of composition/color/etc... and really, have no passion for it. It's not all that challenging to get accepted, and if you have well-off parents, well... then you get plenty of kids who think they can do art just because they have the degree. It's typically the ones with the merit-based scholarships that you want to look for, though I have no idea how often something like that is listed.

But yeah, it's as you say... it all comes down to what kind of learner you are, and how prepared you are to tackle the real world directly after high school. I know I sure as heck wasn't. ;3 I came to a 5 year school because I knew all too well I needed time to really decide where I was going with myself.



...and yeah, I totally second the spelling and grammar call. Hey, even art schools give you higher scholarships if you've got a high GPA.

[Zee Oddwyn]

Well, I don't produce anything professionally. I'm certainly willing to take commissions, or requests, if the drawing sounds interesting.
I am going to college currently, to get an associates in Art, and then I want to attend either Fullsail, or Columbia, both of which are supposed to have good Game Design courses.
I'll say this for the art classes in college, it's a good thing to have someone standing over your shoulder saying that not only can you do better, you should. As for the other classes, well, if you're going to write manga, it helps to have a broader base knowledge. After all, it's easiest to write about what you know. So, I'd say that college is definitely worth it, if not for the ability to say, "Hey! I've got a degree!", but to actually learn new things.

[Tentopet]

Any college where the teachers just teach out of a textbook is a crappy college. You can quote me on that. But just because some do this, doesn't mean all college is this way.

[rivkah]

Any college where the teachers just teach out of a textbook is a crappy college. You can quote me on that. But just because some do this, doesn't mean all college is this way.

And I never assumed so. ^_~

[rivkah]

first off it's not that easy. you're competing against thousands of kids who want in just like you do.

also just because you get into a prestigious art college it doesn't autmotically make you the best artist in the world. they're not miracle workers, you really have to work hard at it. It just depends on who wants the guidance and security an art college will provide them or those who feel comfortable enough to learn on their own.

Or even student loans. I was denied financial aid because my parents make too much (especially being divorced and remarried which essentially doubles how much income the government sees), but that doesn't help much when you're parents won't pay for college. And grants rarely pay for everything. I looked at a bunch when I wanted to go to SCAD, and they barely would have paid for even a third of tuition, not including living and supply costs.

That's why we should all move to France and get free continuing education there. ^_~ I never said college was bad. Just having to pay outrageous sums of money for it that don't always come back in the form of better pay or a career!

[JayneCobb]

I never said college was bad. Just having to pay outrageous sums of money for it that don't always come back in the form of better pay or a career!

I totally agree with that one. It's not bad, but if you could teach yourself and actually learn that way then it saves a whole lot. Or a private taught art class could even help you, and they're way cheaper than 1000+classes...

Many professionals can tell you that art college isn't what it used to be, and that mainly if u got the doe then ur gonna get in. I really don't want to be that much into debt sooo...

[rivkah]

Or a private taught art class could even help you, and they're way cheaper than 1000+classes...

A lot of cities have art courses offered outside of a college setting, too. What's funny is that they're still easier to find through the local community college (just ask a counselor for their brochures or look at the student boards). :) I sit in on 3-5 hour life drawing sessions every week that only cost me in supplies (half a pad of newsprint and charcoal that'll last me months) and $5 for the whole session--with no obligation to go every week if I have a deadline or something suddenly comes up. They even have different times of the week where they have both long and short poses so I can pick and choose how and when I want to practice.

Many cities have informal arts classes offered anywhere from watercolor painting to sculpture and collage. Local professional artists often offer classes out of their homes teaching their specific niche. You'd be surprised what you can find! Even taking a single course at the local college if you're looking to improve a specific skill is excellent if you still have a full-time job to juggle and prefer a more formal setting. They're usually around $60-150 a course depending on how well your state funds the schools. I've had some very good teachers at our local community college and taken single courses on anything from fencing to life drawing to typesetting. It's still college and learning, just not the degree--and since it was uncredited classes, no homework. :P I'm amazed by you people who can sit in a classroom all day. ;_; I prefer taking my books out to the park for lunch and learning there, instead. Or curled up in bed with my nice, comfy PJs. Or reading current events and copyright-free historical novels and essays in front of my computer with a steaming hot cup of chai with milk and sugar. :D

Mwahahah. >_<

[KaYoKitten]

Here's one thing I can say on this topic: Don't go to a major university for your general education. I've actually been to a small, community college and transferred to Wichita State, which is arguably the largest Kansas university. What can I say? There's an ENORMOUS gap in the quality of the education. I've taken a specialty course at both colleges, AND I've taken much of my gen ed already. (I'm transferring yet again to International Academy of Design and Technology-Tampa in October)

Here's what it all boils down to: Smaller class sizes=better teachers=more learning. My Honors English class at the small CC was informal and dedicated just to learning the language and having a bit of fun doing it. I loved the freedom that my instructor gave me.

However, I also needed English 102 for my major (eventually Computer Animation), so I took that when I transferred to WSU for financial reasons. (I was commuting to the CC, and it's over a forty-minute drive. ^^; Not the brightest idea when gas is 2.50 a gallon.) The class was basically this: Don't even bother coming to class, here's the syllabus, write these papers, and send 'em to the instructor over the internet. No freedom of thought--you either wrote what he told you or you flunked and retook the English Class from Hell.

Actually, I'll be taking a third English-related class at IADT, Creative Writing. I'm definitely wondering how it will stack against these two. XD

And believe me, cakes, if you've got the goods for art, your portfolio's your ticket to a basically free education. ^^; I would have gotten a 3000 dollar scholarship per quarter if I'd gone into art like I SHOULD have when I graduated high school.

At IADT, that would have covered HALF of what I needed. Grants would have covered a very decent amount more, and my debt would only have been about...12,000 dollars. It looks like a lot, I know! But compared to the already-amount I have built up JUST doing Gen Ed to this point, which is 14,000 dollars...I have a bit of debt to cover, indeed.

Knowing your major prior to entering college? A good thing! ^_^

[JayneCobb]

Local professional artists often offer classes out of their homes teaching their specific niche.


Yep hehe. We have a lot here XP

[Pig Head]

IMHO Any college is better than no college at all. There's no reason at a young at to limit oneself to a career dream. College is a great excercise in accepting responsibility for your choices and evaluating possible paths to take. The great thing about college is that it gives you both a broad base of skills (should you choose it) and can afford opportunities for high specialization (again, should you choose it). It's a great lesson in 'what you make it". Why does it have to be a choice between college and manga? Can both not be done at the same time? you have the rest of your life to work professionally, why not take college for the experience it is and squeeze some value out of it? Besides the more experiences one has, the more potential stories they have to tell...

[ouch]

I would say local college will "boost up" your self-esteem in art, and add some motivation for you to learn...but actually you are learning nothing. (You turns in all the homework and get an A, how easy is that?) While Art school will torn you apart, beat up your ego, but you will learn the foundation well. Don't expect to learn "how to draw manga" in college though.

[Tavisha]

Many cities have informal arts classes offered anywhere from watercolor painting to sculpture and collage. Local professional artists often offer classes out of their homes teaching their specific niche. You'd be surprised what you can find! Even taking a single course at the local college if you're looking to improve a specific skill is excellent if you still have a full-time job to juggle and prefer a more formal setting. They're usually around $60-150 a course depending on how well your state funds the schools. I've had some very good teachers at our local community college and taken single courses on anything from fencing to life drawing to typesetting. It's still college and learning, just not the degree--and since it was uncredited classes, no homework.

The above quote from Rivkah Couldn't be more true~!
I also couldn't see paying for a college art degree and getting deep into debt when all you really need for freelance art jobs is an impressive portfolio and networking. I think the worst thing that full time college can do is prevent you from having the precious time to create your own works OUTSIDE of just doing school projects. Sometimes school projects can be helpful when say, you're doing a student film and the college provides easy access to expensive equipment that you need, etc. And you're learning some technical trade, etc. But, so many times I've seen students get themselves caught up in the school project rut~ When they get out of college all they have to show for is their college projects in their portfolio. I can tell you that MOST professional companies know a school project when they see it and won't hire you. Ever so rarely it happens, but more times not. Most want to see your abilities beyond school. They want to see your own work showing what the school has taught you beyond their projects. Also, art college will not magically give you talent. You go in with what you have and you come out the best you were able to apply your talents to there. Which is why some people never seem to improve no matter how hard they might apply themselves. I can't draw mecha well, no matter how hard I've tried, but I accept this, and instead apply and excel in other areas of my design work. Part of learning is finding out what you can and can't work with. Part of wisdom is accepting and appreciating what you can and cannot do.
I have no degrees. I've never won an art contest. I am mainly a self-taught artist. Yet, I am the first American woman comic creator TokyoPop published back when they were Mixx Entertainment in 1998. In 2003 TokyoPop began publishing my shoujo manga ShutterBox. The most formal art training I've had was when I was 12, I took an animation class at a small independant studio called Brandes School of Art that was founded by some Disney animators. (sadly its no longer operating) After HS, I took specific community college classes that I wished to learn new techniques in so that I could apply them to my own artwork. I took marker, design, and watercolor classes. I didn't even finish the classes~! I took them for a few months, long enough to learn the techniques, turned in a few exercises and then left. I never took a sequential art or storyboarding class, but I've landed jobs in storyboarding from my self-taught sequential art (comics). Even more impressive to comic publishers than a portfolio showing a bunch of sequential drawings, was having created my own comics. At first, I did this the hard/expensive way of self-publshing in print, because back 10 years ago, there was little options. But, that lead to being professionally published which lead to other art jobs and projects in the professional fields, including the animation industry. These days its so much easier (and cheaper~!) to present a comic to the public utilizing the many web-comic forums available. There's a few OELers out there that got discovered by TokyoPop for their web-comics~ So there's no stopping a young budding artist when there's so many choices and so much acceptance to the comic/manga art form these days. I feel everyone will find their own paths that work for them and suits their personal needs and ambitions.

Just this message board is such a wonderful source of networking together.

[Rem Akimichi]

*looks back through the posts* These are all wonderful answers, but I think you missed my point*goes to edit first post*: I meant, how do you, who are in or were in college, juggle doing both college (or work or what have you) and your manga?

However, please feel free to continue with the discussion at hand ^_^

[KaYoKitten]

Just this message board is such a wonderful source of networking together.

That's actually what I'm hoping by being here...^^; I hope to get to see other artist's work, and hear how they do them so that I can apply them to my own style. Plus, I'll have some friends here that will be able to help me get to places I never thought I'd be. I'm actually headed for IADT (International Academy of Design and Technology) for a degree in Computer Animation. I'm not great with computers in general (for sheer lack of practice), and I hope that they'll be able to teach me some of the tricks of the trade.

Most of the teachers there are retired or currently working in the field from which they teach. I've had a chance to look over the classes: Life Drawing, Photoshop for Animators, Movement for Animators, Storyboarding, Self-Promotion, Storyboards and Scripts--all classes I can use to further my manga drawing skills as well as learning a new and different trade. They've even got several classes where I must work outside of the school in an externship (probably for Disney, since they're based where the school is). My ultimate goal, which I hope to achieve, is to "translate" OEL manga into OEL anime--and make it great.

Ambitious, but worth the effort. ^_^

[thePatches]

I'm just waying that most companies (I'm not talking "hey I work for my uncle") will not hire you unless you have some sort of Degree. It's been proven. Also, there are alot of people out there that call themselves graphic designers and never went to school for it that don't know diddly squat about the ins and outs of the business and could rarely tell you what a trapline is, what color a diecut line should be or even run preflight or check color seperations in a program like Indesign or Quark. That's a bit off-topic though.

Yes, not eveyone who gets a degree earns more than a person who did not go to college. They have to have the talent to start with. College does not make you a good artist. But a degree looks better than none at all. If you don't have the degree though, many people will think they can pay you less than a person with a degree. I've seen it happen. I've HAD it happen. A bachelor's degree is the way to go nowadays since the associates degree (as one of my teachers put it, who btw, was the art director for Giant Eagle incorperated just a few years ago if you live in PA and even know what that is lol) is the new high school diploma lol. He wouldn't even consider hiring a person w/o at least a Bachelor of Science since he ran into so many people who had no idea about some of the things a graphic designer had to do. They could design things and draw really pretty he says, but they were clueless on other things. Or like, didn't come off as too intelligent in other areas like knowing math and language.

Again, though, I'm not saying you can't make it without some kind of degree, or that if you have a degree you will get a job, but having one is a better investment in the long run in my opinion and the opinion of many professional illustrators and designers I know.

[kazuchiyo]

Again, though, I'm not saying you can't make it without some kind of degree, or that if you have a degree you will get a job, but having one is a better investment in the long run in my opinion and the opinion of many professional illustrators and designers I know.

In my experience, you're absolutely right. I am not really involved directly in art now, but I did go to art school. And infact, the competition is getting to be so strict that, at least at the school I went to, they highly encourage all students to finish graduate studies in their specialty, too.

Art school was really hard. There were some really tedious projects and courses the first 2 years, but it was completely worth it because in the second 2 years, we had the freedom to do what we wanted and there were no longer "projects," just open lab and studio space provided for us to hang out and create a body of work, teachers and grad. students on hand to help us, mandatory lectures to help us on technique, and critiques BASICALLY every other week to make sure we were on track. (I was a Printmaking/Drawing major.)
Having to open yourself CONSTANTLY, put your work out, lay everything on the line and EXPLAIN why you did something or what you are trying to accomplish REALLY helped to raise my awareness of myself as an artist and what I was trying to do. There were moments where I was so hurt at the beginning, because of the critique. BUT, you harden up REALLY fast. You learn to take in those constructive comments and ignore the ones that don't really apply/are frivolous (of which there will be MANY in the world), and more than that you get a sense for influences, for inspiration, and for the spirit under which your contemporaries are working.

Honestly, I'm not going to say you can't be successful without art school. There are certainly LOADS of people who are. Knowing myself and some of my friends, though, it's UNBELIEVABLE how different I was after school then before. My horizons and self-awareness had changed 300%, the direction I believed I wanted to take became SO MUCH MORE than it had been, and I felt truly, TRULY passionate about my work in a way I'd never have known otherwise. Not to mention the fact that exposure to so many different people and different ideas had a huge influence on me and I gained respect for so many things I never thought I was interested in before. So I guess, my point is that if the opportunity presents itself, you really should take advantage of it.

[Chaos-Shadow]

I have several stories from people so I'll recount them for you. Mind you don't consider dropping out and going for it unless you know your portfolio will get you a job. If you have a portfolio right now and you haven't landed a job yet, don't go for it, get a degree in something else while doing art, or if you're insecure then just get a degree in art. HOWEVER, a lot of artists coming out of art college don't have jobs because most of it is your abillity and also the people you know.

KK these stories are all different so, listen up!

The closest story I could recount that's near your thoughts is my best friend whose 20 years old. HE finished only community, and was going to go to art center but got his portfolio stolen...which kind of put him down in the dumps. However, now he's working for comics like red sonja, coloring, doing character designs for video games, texturing for activsion,a nd also has a contract with cartoon network. HOW? HIS LIFE DRAWING SKILLS ARE SUPERB, as well as his anime, characterizations and coloring. If you don't have life drawing down, coloring, and different styles all bunched up in one portfolio then i HIGHLY recommend not quitting school. You're not ready for the industry. My best friend didn't just get these jobs out of the blue. During high school he was already going to peopel's houses doing oil portraiture as well as coloring for comics. His life drawing was that strong--if yours isn't consider a lot of heavy practice. He knows some stories I think, and I believe one of his friends whose quite young did the character designs for the boondocks or something. Oh yeah I should mention that because if his skill a lot of people have in the past told him that they were willing to pay all the tuition to how many years of art center he wanted to go to. He turned them down though because he already has work and frankly doesn't need the degree.

There are other stories too, and although they dont pertain to dropping out of college, they pertain heavily on whether or not to get an art degree.

I knew this movie illustrator who told me when he was a teen, he was majoring in biochemistry but he really, really wanted to do art. When he finally decided to switch to art instead his parents were REALLY, really angry with him. But his move was good, cuz now he's firggin rich and famous (in the movie illustration world anyways) he's done so many ads for all the movies you see out, like star wars, xmen 3, something with tim allen that hasnt been talked about yet, and other things i can't mention cuz no one knows about it yet. Yeah, but this was through intense practice, practice, practice.

One teacher (my very first AUTHENTIC ART TEACHER) of mine I was fortunate to have had for a semester is a "master" of our time (he learned from fixler, who learned from reiley or something i think, who learned from bridgeman (the one who did the constructive anatomy books, bokos of 100 hands, etc) and also a movie illustrator. When he was a teen he was accepted to all the top law schools in the country, but decided he wanted to do art instead...of course his parents didn't like the idea, and now he's...well, great. And a lot of people who have gone to his classes and have gone through art college have all told me, don't go, don't go, don't go, it's a waste of time and money and energy. My teacher personally told me that he blieved I did not need the degree either, and I should strongly consider getting a different degree while setting an intense fine art study schedule for myself. Although, if you feel that you cannot learn by yourself or do not have the fortune of having a private art school somewhere where you can learn life drawing, then get an art degree.

A lot of kids that have gone under his instruction have had lots of luck in life. I remember one story he told me about one of his students that was more into designing cars than anythihng, i'm not sure if she finished high school or not--anyways, through lots of events she finally found herself in a car design studio owned by some really famous guy he does stuff for cars in movies and crap. And he happened to walk by when she was begging the receptionist to have him look at her portfolio. He took a look at it, and in no time she got up there, way up there. She's 21 now I believe and is rich, bought herself and her mom a house and everything. Another one of his students was attending community and then finally found his stuff accepted and published in times (if you saw the cover where bush is in a devil suit behind an american flag, that was his painting) yeah, and he's doing well now. Another one whose class I attend is now a famous fine arts guy. I'm not sure about his educational background, all i know was that he studied under my teacher and now he's well known for his life drawings and is a teacher in a private art school.

Uh so yeah that was long.

Hmm well u know iv been wanting to go into animation but im not shure,i mean i want to do animation and illistration more then anything but how availible tare these jobs? lol sry if i sound stupid im just a freshy in highschool but im practicing and practicing drawing etc. and i plan to go to The chicago institute of art, but not shure if i should go or go to some other college.

[JayneCobb]

www.conceptart.org has lots of jobs listings from companies, and you get to see what they're looking for.

a lot of the illustration jobs don't require a degree, but the 3d ones do. for animation you're gonna have to get a degree =\

[larsony]

I wrote my first three years of college. Straight prose (oh but I did some comic strips for the college paper). Somehow managed to work 30 hours a week as a theatre manager, stay up until 4 am eating Krispy Kreme with friends, get an Associate Degree, and write and self-publish two prose books. DO IT WHEN YER YOUNG!

My fourth year I started drawing a lot, but just illustrations. Self-published a short comic. Took six months off, worked at a plastic factory and a glass factory, went to SD Con, and drew 120 pages of comics (including Feast of Grass for RSOM 6).

I just considered college a transitional time, a coccoon for comic/art skill. I have no idea if it will pay off since I'm still in school.

This last semester is the kicker to stay in school. I'm in Japan student/teaching to finish an Education degree. Yes! I'm practicing my art and reading dirt cheap manga while finishing a Bachelors degree that will back me up two fold, both as having a full degree and a teaching certificate.

Now I'm going to try comics full time but have something to fall back on.

So maybe that is all something to consider. And no I wasn't a cave dweller, I still hung out consistently with friends, was involved in the community (language partner, children's lego contest judge), church, and got decent grades.

Just work at drawing everyday and be hardcore. That's my spiel.

[PEZwoman!]

So many good points have been made here so far and I agree that post secondary education is not for everyone.

I am 27 and looked into the statistics in my province (Ontario, Canada) of mature students going back to school and it is interesting to know that 42% are over the age of 22 when they are applying. This is for anyone that has put off going to post secondary school like I have. It’s never too late to change one’s mind about the direction they are heading in, though this often comes at a price like higher tuition or inefficient use of time.

Having all the required prerequisites to the program of interest is another thing to consider in this. I am still evaluating the necessity for a degree in my field of interest which is Animation. I have also noted that for a degree in Animation there is a level of prerequisite to even get into the program that I hadn’t obtained because when I graduated high school in my area there was only an Animation diploma available and I hadn’t anticipated the addition of one. I could still go and upgrade my credits but this is more difficult now than it would have been just to make sure I had it before graduating.

I have worked full time and part time jobs sometimes not even relating to art in any way. Working full time and trying to do art on the side can work but it requires significantly more stamina than just doing one thing at a time. It’s a lot harder to focus and be motivated instead of using the spare time to just relax or socialize after a long day at work…(on the other hand doing art can be relaxing too). For anyone doing art at a college all day and then doing manga after that in the same day, I imagine their hands would need to be strong so as not to keep getting soar.

I am thankful that children haven’t entered the picture yet because that can be a 24hr job on its own.
:D

[PEZwoman!]

PS: The portfolio for any Animation program will likely require a solid knowledge of life drawing and of perspective drawing. The latter is harder for some than for others to learn the concept and correct method to accomplish it. I obtained ‘A’s in Advanced level Art in school and even then I came out of school not having been taught how to do this. I ended up learning it in my own time after graduation and am now confident that it is possible to learn without the aid of a school.
I do also think that it’s appealing to be able to network and get motivation from a school weather it be from a degree program or even just to get a diploma.

[dronedevil]

I'm in the art instruction schools program and its extremely cheap compared to a college you visit since its all by correspondence only about $3000. I'm not good enough to do manga yet but i did send some of my best fan art pics to them itll be a week or two before i hear wha they think of them.

I currently don't know what field of art i want to go into either so maybe the college will help me out there?

[stewisgood11]

i plan to go to an art college a bit down south (Savanah [god i cant even spell the college i wanna go to] College of Art and Design), which is the same place that the creator of Re:Play went. (thats pretty much why i wanna go, and i heard it was good) I'm still trying to improve my art, even enough to get a scholarship (maybe not a full ride) to that school. Then, when i leave that college, i plan to do something professionally w/ my art. Manga or free lancing... hopefully manga tho... or both... i guess i'll hafta see... :D