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tsukasa
03-21-2006, 09:11 PM
I'm late on this thead, curse my laziness, I like David Lynch seen most of his movies, he's a great directory.

But all this bullshit about george lucas, I just feel like I have to clear it up. I'm a hardcore star wars fan. First off, George lucas himself is a crappy director, he can't direct ****. The fact is that he just produced and wrote the skrippt for the first 3 star wars movies (he directed parts of ep 4). The others he hired people to direct. One of the people he asked to direct for him was david lynch but he declined. George Lucas is not a director, he's a producer, great diff. That clears it up a bit and quite frankly I'm to lazy to write anything more about this, if you want to know more, google it.
I take it that you don't like the new trilogy?
Nope. I don't like it one bit.
That explains the rant against Lucas.
Why didn't you like the films? - do not say Jar Jar - that is a crap excuse - everyone hated him!
Did you see all 3?
I saw and own all 3, my main reasons for disliking the movies is that firstly, the plot is not as good as in the earlier movies, it feels like he made it to appeal to a great audience, in an attempt to satesfy everyone, hence also making it totally and utterly uninterresting.

My second major objection against the movies (apart from that the plots simply sucks) is that george lucas depends to much on the new technology, he appears to have been charmed by what the 3D artists can create with computers, don't get me wrong, my hat is off to them, but the 3D stuff for star wars simply sucks. This means that the movies lose a lot of precence and that they don't appear trustworthy anymore, one of the major things I liked with the orgininal star wars movies was that since everyone was people in costumes it had feeling. The new ones simply don't. Also, the 3D art itself does not look trustworth, they've spent to much time on making it into "eye-joy" hence removing any of the orgininal characters (like yodas,( even though he was puppet that could only move his head in the first movie he was in) are now simply empty, they don't look like living creatures anymore, rather as animated little fellas popping into an over animated movie with so few human actors it's hard to take seriously.Ffirst he removes the presence in the characters then he degrades them with unworhty and stale dialog) Star wars has gone from a master piece to a pile of stinking mainstream crapp.
ok -
first - stale acting - have you wathed the OT - it's the same kind of acting, if not worse!!
second - besides kill the empire what plot was there in the OT? there was none till the end of TESB! and most of ROTJ was so bad the only time plot came into that dead film was after Luke and Leia talk about parentage.
third - George and ILM defined and created visual fx and CGI!
OT? I've been thinking for a while and I can seriously not figure out what this referes to... I do admit that the acting in the orginal movies wasn't topily topidy top. But there still was feeling in them you got a sense of that the stuff actaully ment something to them, even though, yes for the most part they where horrible actors.. You're still not making any sense at all though.


I still dunno what OT is, the forth ep is called "A new hope" so it can't be that which you're refering to, I just can't make all this make sense, TESB and ROTJ seems like the empire strikes back and return of the jedi though.

If you can say all that, have you made an analasyses of the movie? Have you seen it scene by scene and drawn paralels, tried to find a deeper meaning?
Do you even know how you make a real analasys of a movie, (I don't mean that junk you do in highschool, I mean the real deal)? From your post it doesn't seem so...

Hmmmm, no. This actually talks in my favourite, you admit that in the old days they knew what they where doing, and as I said. My hat is off to them. But they're usage of the new 3D art is tacky and tastelss. As I said, they've focused to much on making it "eye-joy" instead of trying to create a credible image of something. They used to lead the development, I give you that, but nowadays there are others who are doing stuff far better then they are. They're fallen giants.
OT means Original Trilogy.
and u proved my point with the stale acting!

A New Hope was/is the most boring of all 6 films. there was nothing going on in that movie except for:
1 - Obi-Wan dying.
2 - It being stated that Palpatine now controls the entire galaxy/universe, and his disbandment of the Senate.
TESB - Luke gets trained, luke finds out about Daddy Vader.
ROTJ - Death Star blown up, Plapatine killed by Anakin, End of the Empire, Luke and Leia Reunited as brother/sister.
There is no deeper meaning anywhere in these movies. Watch them in order 1 2 3 4 5 6. there is nothing we dont already know about before ANH starts. The movies are boring. they are great, I grew up with them, but they are boring.

The FX were top-notch in each and every film. Fallen Giants huh, that is why nearly every film to date asks ILM to do the FX for them. They needed to show that an entire Universe was there and not just a few small backwater planets, what better way to make impressive landscapes than with the most detailed imagery. So what that it was CGI, it looked damn great. Better than anything else out there. Plus do you really expect George to put people in danger by filming in a freaking valcano? Come on! there was no other way to do that scene!
You have no clue what you're talking about what so ever, I feel like I'm talking to a brick here, I ask you to read between the lines/find paralelse and you give me this crapp? Seriously? Are you trying to make me laugh at you?

As for the FX, they aren't top notch, I've seen far better stuff that looks far more credible. You have to understand, that the main object with creating FXs is to making them believable, they have to look real. They simply don't in the new star wars movies. That's a failure, they can be as advanced as they want to and a glittery you want, if you don't believe what you see, it's just expensive junk.

Landscapes? hmmm *looks out his window* You're right, we obiously have no other way of doing them.... Silly me....

But you might bring up the city scenes, they where surpsingly good, but I still have the major problem here, most of the stuff looks new, like they bought it last monday and they're taking it out for a test spin. Nothing of the dented, worndown, feel that I loved in the orginal movies. Simply, doesn't look credible. I'm sticking with my previews statement but I'm going to rephrase it so you can udnerstand it "george lucas is to busy sucking his own **** to realise that what he does simply doesn't look real anymore".

The volcano scence and the space scene in the beginning (and a few others) are totally and utter unrealistic, they break so many physcial laws, I've lost count. Not that they orginal movies always obied the laws of physics but they darn well more often did and never ever they they break any major laws, like for instance NOT burning up when taking a damage space ship through the atmospher....

Also, detail != Good quality. Look out your window, can you see every grass straw in the wind? No? If you can I envy you. It's the same making 3D, why can I clearly see every little grass straw that is supposidly quite far away? And why are they shinny?! *Looks out on the pale matt grass* Yeah.. it sure looks shinny...

Buttom line, the goal with FX is to make it look credible, not to show off your balls in order to show off.
.....

tsukasa
03-21-2006, 09:12 PM
ok, Geonosis was not shiny, it had a dented worn weather look, as did Tatooine. Kamino is supposed to be a sterile environment. Naboo is a scerene country side, it has both a rugged look outside the city, and a smooth look inside. Coruscant has "The Works" an entire freaking district that has been run down, and closed, and is rotting away, much like the state of the republic. The Jungle Plantes look like jungles. The high tech worlds look futuristic. the reason that things are all worn and beaten in the OT is that it has been a 20 year war, each side is fighting for survival, no one is going around and makin sure everything is perfecly spotless, they have more important thing to do, ie: stay alive, and use rescouces for war. look at the US the 20's, no one cared about the trouble brewing in Europe, everything looked more or less dazzling, come the 30's and 40's, everything was falling apart. supplies were limited - food, clothes, they all went to military purposes.

Oh, and Luke jumping 20 feet, the lightsaber, and flying ships in the OT werent breaking the layw of physics?
About luke breaking the laws of physics, well quite frankly, no, it wasn't it's explained with a scientific explenation. This is included in the SF genré, even what marks it from fantasy. Since it's scientifically explained it's ok, that's SF for you, take it or leave it. However, they never even attempt to explain it in the newer movies, making them closer to fantasy then SF.

Further more, I'm not american, I have no clue how it is in the US, but I have seen most of europe (both western and eastern) and it's pretty worn down, even the places that's tipidy tip top. This makes me believe that even if it's the grand future, it doesn't mean that everything should look new and shinny. Regardless of what you say, you can't deny that even the stuff that is supposed to look run down etc, simply doesn't, it looks like it's knew but was built with cracks, if you get my drift. I have nothing against making stuff in 3D as long as you make it believable, the goal with making stuff with computers is not being able to tell it's computer made. In the new star wars movies you can, which either meanas that george lucas used the technology poorly or it's not ready to be used in a movie. Your pick.
You don't have to be American to know about the Great Depression, and what it was like before it.

And it seems to me like you don't even know what you're posting about anymore. I think that you have realized that nothing you can say to me cannot be disproven. Also I think that you might have a better understanding of these movies now that you have sat through this little debate.

But if you want to continue it, than by all means, keep going, I find this fun.

And if anyone else wants to join in, for either side, you are more than welcome to.

thismist
03-21-2006, 09:48 PM
i'm not sure if this is about lucas as a director or the new trilogy or whatever but i really don't understand why people hate the new 3 movies so much. to me it seems like if you like the first 3, you should like the story that made it what it was. I actually pretty much hated the first 3 movies. The acting sucked, the story wasn't that great, and the special effects were only good before we had modern technology with cgi and everything. I could somewhat understand if people didn't like episode 1 or 2 better but ep 3 whooped all kinds of ass.

Spike
03-22-2006, 03:57 AM
My brain started to melt before I could read all of that but I'll tell you what my problem with Star Wars is. The main problem throughout all six movies is the terribly written (by Lucas) dialogue. Some great and some not so great actors have been involved with the Star Wars saga and I imagine it was extremely hard to deliver some of the cheese that they had to spew. George Lucas does not know how to write dialogue, period.

I do like the OT and I enjoyed Liam Neeson's performance in Phantom Menace and Ewan McGregor's performance throughout but I feel that they rushed through the prequels and in some cases made bad casting choices. But I'll say it again, the main problem is the writing. And the whole saga is overrated.

Kyaa the Catlord
03-22-2006, 04:11 AM
See, the problem with episodes 1-3 is that they don't have the true hero of 4-6. There is no Wedge Antilles.

Read this to learn the truth. (http://www.jeremygilby.com/?p=697#more-697)

Parfait
03-22-2006, 04:28 AM
I like Star Wars, but there was one thing that I think they could've improved. Star Wars seemed to focus too much on the action scenes and special effects, when it probably should've focused more on character developement. A lot of the characters had very deep connections with eachother - whether they're friends or enemies - and some of their connections were left unexplained. For instance, I would've liked to see how Anakin and Padme's (I'm so sorry if I have the names wrong, I haven't seen the movies in a while >_<) relationship formed from them just meeting eachother into having children. And I also would've liked to see how Anakin interacted with his Jedi master while they were training. It seems that a relationship between a jedi-in-training and his master is extremely close and it makes me wonder if something happened between them during their training to eventually make Anakin go against his master (aside from having his mind screwed with by the enemy). There's just too much unexplained. While action is good and all, I think I would have preffered Star Wars to show more of the relationships between the characters.

As for George Luca's directing...I don't know anything about this. Usually I just look at a movie and judge it for what the final copy is, despite who the producers, director, actors, etc involved in it are.

Fanservice Alchemist
03-22-2006, 04:35 AM
To me, there was a very good reason why Lucas started with Episodes IV-VI rather than Episodes I-III. The first three (prequels) by their very nature are steeped in murky galactic politics, intrigue, as well as the overall fall of the Old Republic and the Jedi Order. In comparison, the later three are far more straightforward action-adventure stories about an intergalactic war that concentrated around three very accessible characters--a hero-in-training, a rogue with a heart of gold, and a noble princess. We didn't have any of that in the prequels. We couldn't relate to many of the characters, there was an awful lot of stuff frequently going on that sometimes didn't make sense, and there wasn't really anyone to root for except perhaps the villains sometimes...

Looking back at all six films, I definitely understand why Lucas went with Episodes IV-VI first and I agree with his rationale. The prequels are just backstory, a setting up to things to come later. I don't think the beginning a story should be better than its ending, IMO...

Sure, one can sit back and criticize the films for all their faults--and every Star Wars movie has them to varying degrees--but I do think its harshest critics do take the films far too seriously, even more so than George Lucas does.

I'm not totally defending the prequels--I do think Lucas made a number of mistakes in the overall story (was it necessary to show Anakin as a kid in Episode I?) and I do think the dialogue and characterization could have been better--but I don't look at the prequels as being the worst films ever made. It served its purpose to set up events in Episode IV-VI and gave us some of the most spectacular lightsaber and spaceship battles we've ever seen...

YamPuff
03-22-2006, 04:47 AM
I don't like the new trilogy. The only reason why it suceeded in any sense is because of the original trilogy and because people wanted to see the Darth Vader transformation.

Summary: The original rocked! The next sucked.

NUFF SAID!!!!!!!!! Yippy yippy kaiaiiiii!!

Stuck_Process
03-22-2006, 04:49 AM
Note to Tsukasa, if you look at it, you haven't disproved me a single time, at the most you've said "it's like this since I said so" or "it's like this look at this totally unrelated matter, cheesecake is good" stop acting and grow up.

About havign a better understanding of the movies? WTF? You clearly don't udnerstand them at all.

It looks like to me that, all you're doing now is stating clear lies in some absurd attempt to "win".

Go **** yourself and grow up.


For the rest of you, I already stated my oppinion on the matter.

tsukasa
03-22-2006, 05:08 AM
Dude, first, I am not trying to "win" anything!
And how can you say that I don't understand them, I seem to understand than a lot better than some closed minded person such as yourself.
How old are you seriously, why tell me to grow up. I'm probably a lot older than you.
Plus there was absolutely no call or reason to curse at me.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 06:12 AM
I think that you both have different opinions on the films. There's a lot of people who don't like Star Wars and a lot of people who do. But when you made the Star Wars topic, Tsukasa, you didn't need to quote what she (he?) said. I think that's disrespectful, blatent provoking, and something you should ask for her permission to get. So there absolutely was a reason for her to get pissed and curse and you'd probably do the same thing if you were in her place.

tsukasa
03-22-2006, 06:23 AM
i was asked to move the discussion, so i did.

Aratos
03-22-2006, 06:24 AM
I'm more interested in the wya Lucas broke his own rules, personally. used to be if you wanted to write Star Wars fiction, you had to sign a contract saying you wouldn't change anything that was already there. Here's some nice highlights fo what was already there;

*Owen and Beru weren't related to Luke. Owen was however Obi-Wan's brother.
*Boba fett's real name was Jaster Mareel. It's unknown where he got the cool armour.
*Obi-Wan was trained by Yoda. Compeltely and totally.
*When Obi-Wan met Anakin, Anakin was in his early twenties.
*the bounty hunters guild collapsed thanks to the work of Boba fett during the events of A New Hope. At this point, the head of the guild was Bossks father, who was old and weak by this stage. In his youth he was one of the greatest bounty hunters, and Boba Fett was just making his mark at that point. Which puts us, what, Boba Fett was a bounty hunter at least 20 or so years before A New Hope. Luke would be in his 20's, meaning Boba Fett was an adult back when Luke was born.
*lightsabers are evidently big heavy things in the original trilogy. The books also make that clear. Could a single lightsabre be waved about at great speeds? Maybe, but I doubt it. Could a double-bladed sabre twice the size and proabbyl weight, or multiple sabres be waved around at the same speeds? God no.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 06:44 AM
It's fine for you to move the discussion, but that doesn't mean including Process' opinions in it and I think you know that.

Aratos
03-22-2006, 06:52 AM
Moving the discussion and recapping what those of us who don't know what's going on missed is a good thing. It's what any sane person would do.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 06:59 AM
...oO;

It's what any sane person would do - if both people debating didn't mind their opinions posted. And since Process does seem to mind from her last post, I say her quotes should be taken down. First off, Tsukasa could have posted his/her opinion and asked for other people's opinions on the movies instead of posting the argument. Secondly, if this is a thing between Tsukasa and Process, it could've easily gone over PM.

Aratos
03-22-2006, 07:03 AM
True, but it had already gone on outwith PM, no? Besides, if you're going to get annoyed when someone merely recaps what you already said, you really need to deal with your anger management problems, no?

Parfait
03-22-2006, 07:19 AM
I see. I thought this was posted on another thread. o.o' Thou skin doth too pale, thou must suntan.

EDIT: Re-read it. It seems that the person with the opinion that opposes the thread starter will automatically be made out as the bad guy. It's kind of hard to argue with that. Also, if she doesn't want her opinions posted, then people should respect that - whether or not you think she has anger management problems.

Aratos
03-22-2006, 07:28 AM
Well my immediate reaction was that the thread starter was the one with the bad argument. I see your point though. I think.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 07:32 AM
I see your point. I was talking about the way the thread started was trying to portray her...or something. o_o

I see your point though. I think.

You mean about the suntanning thing, right?

Aratos
03-22-2006, 07:34 AM
No, about the respecting her not wanting her opinions reposted. The suntanning thing went right over my head.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 07:37 AM
ur kidding.... Thou hast yet to learn the language of thy Harao Egyptians. I condescend thee, do the Egyptian.

Aratos
03-22-2006, 07:39 AM
o..k.. Now I'm totally lost.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 08:22 AM
Thou hast lost in Egypt? To a game of chess or with Banba by thy side?

Aratos
03-22-2006, 08:25 AM
er, I understandeth thy gibberish not?

Kyaa the Catlord
03-22-2006, 08:32 AM
Wait! Ur's not in Egypt! We have an intruder! HALT!

Parfait
03-22-2006, 08:39 AM
Thou hast intruded thy Great Pyramid of Egypt. Thou shall suffer thy consequences. Yoda, come forth thee!

Yoda: Damn right, bitches. *breakdances like no tomorrow*

Tis' thou's turn to defeat Yoda in thee dance contest.

Stuck_Process
03-22-2006, 11:22 AM
What the ****?! For the love of god! I'm a ****ing He. I've already told you a few times. As for how old I am, I'm 20. I don't mind my oppinions being posted at all. What pissed me off was the personal insults made to me at the end of the recap. Now everyone get back on topic.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 12:01 PM
What the ****?! For the love of god! I'm a ****ing He. I've already told you a few times.

What are you talking about? I've never even spoken to you before. I don't even know who you are, except someone who I thought might have needed their point of view supported. But apparently I was wrong...can't be right all the time. :/

Stuck_Process
03-22-2006, 01:02 PM
Riiight...:

Just because you seem to have a problem with being titilated by the flash of the lower portions of their leotards doesn't mean everyone else does... Thanks for the insult though.

She wasn't insulting you, but my, aren't we defensive... ^^


As for the SM live action crap, I think it looks cheesy beyond words. I don't have a problem with panty flashes, but most live-action things based off of anime are produced solely to steal your money.

Errr, I'm afraid I'm a Male... but I still stand by what I said, I spoke my mind, if you feel offende to bad for you, you can go shove your oppinion up your arse for all I care.

And for ice scaters, it's an other deal. From what I've seen of this show there is no reaso what-so-ever to do it here. Even if they are wearing real stuff under the suit, it doesn't matter. The intent is still there. And I find that disgusting..


Taken from the thread about live action sailor moon thread....

Parfait
03-22-2006, 01:06 PM
Alright...but where did you say you were a male?

Aratos
03-22-2006, 01:06 PM
Which has what to do with Star Wars?

Parfait
03-22-2006, 01:20 PM
Thine is still lost is Egypt. Thine must return.

However, thine makes a good point. Thee shall only respond to Star Wars-related posts from this point on and continue the gender debate through pms. Please forgive thine for off-topic-ness.

tsukasa
03-22-2006, 01:33 PM
Parfait - this discussion was posted in another thread. I didn't see anything wrong with reposting it, seeing as how we were asked to move it to a Star Wars thread.

My intent was not to make either of us seem right or wrong - I was just recapping what was already stated. I am sorry if it came out that way.


And I never insulted you StuckProcess.

Aratos
03-22-2006, 01:39 PM
That's the spirit! Now how about we drop the argument and get on with the discussion at hand: Yoda! Anyone else notice he appears to be of either German or Roman origin, judging by his verb orders?

Parfait
03-22-2006, 01:40 PM
Thy did not understand thee entire situation. Thy apologizes.

Did thee prosper on thy opinions on Star Wars though? Thy was hoping you would enjoy reading them.

Parfait
03-22-2006, 01:43 PM
That's the spirit! Now how about we drop the argument and get on with the discussion at hand: Yoda! Anyone else notice he appears to be of either German or Roman origin, judging by his verb orders?

Yoda brings up so many possible questions that thee must ask. Was Yoda Kermit the Frog when he was younger? If so, thee must understand Roman origin is certainly a possibilty. If so, why was his name changed from Kermit to Yoda? Criminal on the run needing a new alias perhaps? Thee must also wonder...was Jim Henson Yoda's Jedi Master in youth? Quite possible.

thismist
03-22-2006, 05:48 PM
I like Star Wars, but there was one thing that I think they could've improved. Star Wars seemed to focus too much on the action scenes and special effects, when it probably should've focused more on character developement. A lot of the characters had very deep connections with eachother - whether they're friends or enemies - and some of their connections were left unexplained. For instance, I would've liked to see how Anakin and Padme's (I'm so sorry if I have the names wrong, I haven't seen the movies in a while >_<) relationship formed from them just meeting eachother into having children. And I also would've liked to see how Anakin interacted with his Jedi master while they were training. It seems that a relationship between a jedi-in-training and his master is extremely close and it makes me wonder if something happened between them during their training to eventually make Anakin go against his master (aside from having his mind screwed with by the enemy). There's just too much unexplained. While action is good and all, I think I would have preffered Star Wars to show more of the relationships between the characters.

As for George Luca's directing...I don't know anything about this. Usually I just look at a movie and judge it for what the final copy is, despite who the producers, director, actors, etc involved in it are.



All the things you said are basically the plot of episode 2

Parfait
03-22-2006, 07:05 PM
All the things you said are basically the plot of episode 2

No, thine aren't.

Alphonse Elric
03-22-2006, 08:01 PM
the new ones rock... because obi-wan was hot!

nixon
03-23-2006, 10:10 AM
This thread has a bit of potential for decent debate--stay on topic and clean things up. Stuck_Process, you're in Doc's crosshairs: be cool.

Doc

tsukasa
03-25-2006, 01:45 AM
Thank you for re-opening this thread!
I have no idea why it was closed in the first place.

Arcademan
03-25-2006, 05:43 AM
Thank you for re-opening this thread!
I have no idea why it was closed in the first place.

There was a cross-up in communications. There was a bad report sent on this thread and instead of notifying the people that may have been responsible, it was locked. The whole thing has been corrected.

That said, please keep in mind that this is a debate about Star Wars. Some of the earlier posts here involved name-calling between posters and swearing at one another and that simply will not be tolerated. If there's debate, explain your viewpoints on what you liked or didn't like. If someone disagrees, explain why. Don't turn it into a personal vendetta because someone thinks differently and does not agree with your opinions. That's all we ask.

If a problem does arise that you feel needs the attention of the administration, please feel free to contact them rather than trying to defuse the situation on your own that could possibly make things worse.

Thank You.

tsukasa
03-25-2006, 05:47 AM
I don't wanna be banned or make enimies, so I didnt or wont flame anyone.